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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good enough...

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1080p is enough.

Jim, go ahead and close up shop, take a nice vacation with the wifey. I'll come down to Lake Forest tomorrow and take all those unwanted EPIC prototypes off your hands (cuz I'm a good guy like that).

:sifone:
 
yusufwings said:
Hi Jim and RED TEAM and to all who own a RED ONE.
GOOD ENOUGH 1080 HA HA HA.

in 1997 I shot a independent wildlife documentary on SD on one of first affordable 3 Chip DV camcorder. The film Jewel of The Mangroves, went on win number awards including one at IWFF (Montana USA). It was produced by me without receiving any funding whatsoever, I would spend my last Dirham buying tapes, petrol and spent days and months filming. I had lost my regular job as producer in company in Dubai just a month back and instead of mourning decided to film. Just a few months back I had taken a personal loan of US10000/- to buy the camera. Six months after losing my job I finished the film and the rest was history. But when I tried selling this film to a major Japanese broadcaster I received the greatest shock of my like, I was categorically told that the film was great but they did not buy anything that was not shot in HD. This was in 2000 for God's sake. I have still kept the correspondence as a reminder of how there has been a sinister policy to always up the ante with technology which an independent cannot afford.

In 2001 I setup VFX and have been in business since then, we have had Six different HD cameras and when one could afford one, long telephoto HD lenses were more expensive than the HD camera itself. In NAB 2007 I had the good fortune of being a quiet observer of RED and at the same show or was later at IBC, Super HD was being shown by you guessed right a major Japanese Manufacturer in collaboration with a Japanese Broadcaster, and this was going to be the future of television, YES 4K. Guys get the drift, because RED has put a spanner in the future plans of a lot of MONEY HUNGRY ??????, and made 4K not just possible but affordable SO TODAY 1080 is NOW GOOD ENOUGH. We have had our RED ONE since August 2008, and have used Nikon Telephoto Lenses to shoot Six Wildlife Docus till date, besides scores of TVC and other commercial work. THANK YOU RED for making our work future proof at least for a few years.
TODAY when I am happy I see RED, SAD-RED, ANGRY-RED, MAKING MONEY-RED, LESS COMMERCIAL WORK- WILD RED. WHAT I am saying is that guys you have fantastic future proof tool use it, and guys who just joined or will join the film-video-televison industry, you have no clue how hard it was in the past to create affordable 2K imagery let alone 4K, so make the most of it.

Yusuf Thakur
VFX, DUBAI
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I bet against resolution once, too. I will NEVER make that mistake again. I listened to too many "pros" that said it was good enough and the project was unreleasable. I learned the hard way --- through my wallet --- that formats and standards change rapidly and I will only acquire at the highest resolutions available moving forward.
 
Jannard said:
If 1080P is really "good enough"... then there is no reason for RED.

We started this business because we believed that 1080P was NOT good enough a film alternative/replacement.

Jim
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Hi Jim,

Based on the tiny percentage of Hollywood films shot in 1080P, I don't think anybody seriously involved in the process thought it was a replacement to film.

Best

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Jim,

Based on the tiny percentage of Hollywood films shot in 1080P, I don't think anybody seriously involved in the process thought it was a replacement to film.

Best

Stephen
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Not George Lucas? Not James Cameron? Michael Mann? David Fincher?

I guess they figured their films were just temporary.
 
Liam Hall said:
Ben, don't confuse delivery and acquisition formats. Two different things.
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Between them is workflow and problems. The more RED diss 1080p, the more the TV industry will move away from them. This is happening now with the ARRI - 1080p capture is all I hear about. For me, RED was always about putting cinema quality images in the hands of all mediums.

How many red owners work in cinema? 10 percent? The other 90 can only dream of 2k delivery. All of them wish (secretly or otherwise) their camera would just output 1080p. They're all fed up with the transcoding and down converting.

As I said - I'm all for 4k acquisition. I just want the option to have 1080p capture on camera. Posting comments like this will only fuel the notion that RED is not the right solution for TV.
 
During a visit an Italian cleric once told me the following about Grappa:

- If you want to get drunk, you'll be fine with a cheap Grappa. But if you sell your house, your wife and your kinds and then spend that money on one bottle of the best Grappa, you will never regret it.


Now, thanks to Jim we can get the best Grappa and keep our kids, wife and home.

Can also recommend a good article by photographer Michael Albany, "When 'good enough' isn't"
 
About human eye

About human eye

I think it's time to remember some important information.
Here is a summary from the site : http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.htm

1. Resolution : About 342 MPix for a view in front of you that is 90 degrees by 90 degrees. And for a field of view of 120 degrees, it's about 576 MPix.

2. Sensitivity : About ISO 800 for a dark adapted eye.

3. Dynamic Range : It depends on the scene brightness. But the human eye DR is between 20 (low light condition) and 23 (maybe more) stops.

These data are just from one source.
Anyway, for motion picture, I think it could not be very useful to go more than 576 MPix and 23 stops... but who knows...

Yves-Dominique FRANCK
 
What's good enough is what works for a particular someone. It might be 4K to me and 1080p to the person sitting next door. It is nice however to have the tools available to be able to reach both goals, regardless of what the delivery or acquisition format is.

Not everything has to or will be shot on RED. Each camera is suitable better than others to a given environment or situation. Red's ethos and products are fantastic but they don't fit every production. It has revolutionize the industry, no matter what side you are on, and that is unquestionable. It has taken a very substantial share of the market in a extremely short amount of time and that is even more incredible. 4k. 5K or higher acquisition resolutions is just mind blowing if you actually think of the sheer amount of resolution you are dealing. It will be a while before you see 4K home TV sets on the high street though....

I guess it very much depends on what everyone is doing and the type of work each of us do. For some 4K is already old news, for others 1080P is the present and future.. Who knows what the future holds!

We love RED!
 
For present market scenario 1080p / 2K is far enough for HDTV and Cinema Screens.

The question really is whether 4K / 5K is needed and the answer is yes. In couple of years time we may see 4K projectors from Sony / Barco / Christie will be flooding the market and hollywood will start charging us more something like what they done for S3D now.

PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW LEADERS WHO MAKE WAY AND RED IS LEADER.
 
guys, that's very clever..
RED was always concentrating in pushing the market towards the next generation format.. its no myth that the future of imaging will be higher in resolution.. RED is just pushing the standard to be in 4K.. encouraging other aspects like post and distribution.. and filling the gap spots if others cannot manufacture..
 
ydfranck@pt.lu said:
I think it's time to remember some important information.
Here is a summary from the site : http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.htm

1. Resolution : About 342 MPix for a view in front of you that is 90 degrees by 90 degrees. And for a field of view of 120 degrees, it's about 576 MPix.

2. Sensitivity : About ISO 800 for a dark adapted eye.

3. Dynamic Range : It depends on the scene brightness. But the human eye DR is between 20 (low light condition) and 23 (maybe more) stops.

These data are just from one source.
Anyway, for motion picture, I think it could not be very useful to go more than 576 MPix and 23 stops... but who knows...

Yves-Dominique FRANCK
Click to expand...

Anything below these is simply not good enough. There's a long, long way to go for RED!

Capturing light was always the eye's viewpoint. Weak sensitivity coupled with a tiny aperture (relatively). The idea is to capture what the eye cannot see. Something film had succeeded to some extent, but digital is taking it further. The aim must be to capture complete darkness, or at least, on a cloudy no-moon night - only the diffused starlight. Basically, making night vision colour.

Of course, it is no use having a 23 stops 576 MP image if the projection/viewing standards don't exploit it. It is clear that RED are far ahead of such standards - and looking well into the future. 4K sure does look better than 2K projected at 2K. But how much better will 8K look over 4K projected at 2K? There are surely some bottlenecks there. The existence of RED I am sure will drive home video and projection standards forward. 4K seems to be happening.

Whoever says "1080p is good enough" must be relatively confident their works won't be viewed in coming years.

And yes, 1080p will be worse than VHS is now when 12K rolls into our homes.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Not George Lucas? Not James Cameron? Michael Mann? David Fincher?

I guess they figured their films were just temporary.
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Tom,

What percentage of Hollywood features are your 4 heroes responsible for? Last 10 years, or even the last year?

Clearly not enough to draw a conclusion 1080p would even make a tiny dent on film origination. I know its different with still photography & the " new betacam " HDSLR crowd, but they don't have any influence in Hollywood.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Tom,

What percentage of Hollywood features are your 4 heroes responsible for? Last 10 years, or even the last year?

Clearly not enough to draw a conclusion 1080p would even make a tiny dent on film origination. I know its different with still photography & the " new betacam " HDSLR crowd, but they don't have any influence in Hollywood.

Stephen
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what percentage of ultra box-office hauls are cameron and lucas responsible for? star wars? titanic? indie? avatar?? cameron just turned the industry on its ear with a 1080p film and out-grossed the average film by 250x.

i don't think their films will die off, far from it, but pictures shooting from now on should keep an eye on 4K.
 
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