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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good enough...

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What would have happened if the Model T was declared "good enough"? It was pretty awesome. Or "The Spirit of St. Louis"? It did cross the Atlantic after all, maybe that was "good enough". If "good enough" was part of the human genome then we would not be at the top of the food chain. If we're not constantly pushing through to good, better and best then what is to become of us as a human race?

It's one thing to reach the summit of Mt. Everest and say,"this is it, there's nothing higher." But to see 4K and even 5K from the peak of 1080p and say, "well, 1080p is good enough." That's just laziness.

Jim, I salute you. Never settle.
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
when someone invents affordable 4K projection... (nudge nudge wink wink)
say no more, say no more. :)
Click to expand...

Seriously... the writing is on the wall, but not everyone can see it yet.

I see RED Digital Cinema going WAY beyond cameras. WAY beyond.
 
"1080P is the VHS of the future... mark my words."

LMAO, I see you're up stirring up some shit tonight, Jim. I like that!

The people who are saying "1080p is good enough" are the same ones who said, "Who needs HD? DVD is good enough. Studies show that if you sit __ feet from the screen you can't even see the difference between SD and HD... blah blah blah."

It's all nonsense. 4K is coming.
 
4K/1080p

4K/1080p

In photography the film got replaced when the sensors came close to the 35mm film resolution.
1080p has been around for years and it did not replace film, in no way. Imitating the 35mm depth of field with the 35mm adapters, downscaling a 4K sensor in camera, are temporary solutions.

4K-5K with a good compression can replace film and fast! As happened with digi-photography... This is the way to go.
All the rest is a temporary compromise that can last 1-2 years max, I think.
 
Another thought on the MP war from the stills perspective

there becomes a point at which the sensor is NOT the the device limiting resolution in practical use

typically the resolution is limited by focus errors and other mechanical issues - another reason why my Hasselblad is regularly outresolved by my Nikon D3

dont take it too far - resoution would need to go hand in hand with other technical developments in the chain

seriously other things count - weight ergonomics, AF, preroll, boot up, the best camera is one that is there and rolling

S
 
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Why all this talk of resolution? It's like the mega pixel wars that are still going on in the stills market.

2k, after debayer, is definitely good enough for me. 2.5 even better, but believe me when I tell you that resolution is towards the bottom of my concerns. Even if 5k was available for the Scarlet I doubt as an indy if I could afford the post workflow.

Dynamic range, noise floor, Raw, FLUT, touch focus, 120fps, any lens I want to use, all the accessories, etc etc. With all that, pardon me if I don't worry about the resolution.
 
Years ago at an NAB convention in the first years of HD, Coppola pissed of a few people when he suggested "why stop at 1080"? He was right and so is Jim!
 
What's the point if not to progress?... in anything.
 
It depends for what. Home television, maybe yes. Cinema, certainly not. After watching and comparing HD with Red One footage, there is no going back.

But, it is not just the distribution format. Acquisition in high resolution opens up so many post possibilities, not to mention the exta resolution needed for de-bayering process.

I will take 5k and 6k in a heartbeat.

Sorry Jim, no holidays for the RED team. Actually, a working holiday, if you like. I'm sure you guys find it as exciting as us, mere users.
 
Distribution aint a problem. Theaters are going 4K fast, and soon people will be watching 4K movies on 4K LCDs on their PCs and Macs, sitting only feet from huge monitors. That's where 4K will melt eyeballs.

4K gaming as well.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Distribution aint a problem. Theaters are going 4K fast, and soon people will be watching 4K movies on 4K LCDs on their PCs and Macs, sitting only feet from huge monitors. That's where 4K will melt eyeballs.

4K gaming as well.
Click to expand...

The current paradigms of "television" "cinema" and "web" are primed to be
transformed.
 
This forum include a wide range of professionalism. Therefore there will be different needs for different kind of jobs. Some of us needs to settle for 1080p, not because we want to, but because we need to in order to get into the game, and thereby later be able to produce 4K material. Just like film students had to settle for 16mm film instead of 35mm. Of course the same price-gap do not apply here, but 4K still make things a little more complicated if you don't have the biggest budget in the world.
It's better to have a 1080p film then not having a film at all. Settling for 1080p is not necessarily a wish but a need. It is not all black and white. If we were to choose between 1080p and 4K with no restrictions, it would clearly be a no-brainer. Anyhow I also believe 4K is the future. And future proofing your work as soon as possible is of course what everybody wants.
 
What is the point of this discussion

All engineering is compomise

I pick my 800ISO nikon D3 over my 50 ISO hasselblad

taking speed over resolution

Of course I want a million ISO and 100mp

But if I cant have both which do I want

In motion I would take 2.5k 120FPS RAW for sale, service and rent now over 5k in development

S

What resolu
 
When the distribution is there for 4K, then naturally people will welcome the resolution benefits. I'm of the belief that resolution is just one of the things that has allowed RED to become a major player. From the relatively affordable price point to REDcode to the evolution of the sensor technology, it's the complete package that is allowing RED to gain so much ground. I think focusing too much on resolution undermines the real strength of the system which is how incredible REDcode is (and it's getting even better all the time), how amazing it is to get high quality footage onto a CF card, all of the benefits of the M-X sensor, etc.

To me, the 1080P is good enough argument will evolve as technology pushes in other directions, and the market adapts. When 4K TVs are affordable to the masses, 4K will have arrived. Even sooner in theaters. I'm not too worried about that. What I love to see from RED is continuous innovation in a bunch of different areas, which is what you guys are doing. The modular camera system, better battery systems, better accessories, impressive lens designs, etc.

Put the emphasis on the complete system, and honestly I don't think you'll have any worries moving forward. :-)
 
morgan_moore said:
What is the point of this discussion

All engineering is compomise
Click to expand...

But sometimes that compromise is made FOR you not BY you. And when a giant corporation release a new model with minor feature updates, the compromise has been made for their benefit and not necessarily yours.

That's the point. There are some companies pushing 1080p as good enough for both acquisition and delivery.
 
Is 1080p good enough? and I was anxiously wondering whether my 4.5 k is still good enough now that 5k is coming!
Seriously, it's mostly a question of character; some are constantly wondering if it isn't enough what we have, others always want things better. I'm not sure the last attitude doesn't do more harm than good in general, but it certainly brings us stuff we wouldn't have otherwise
 
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