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GATES "Deep Epic" Underwater Housing, USER reviews here please.

Will Keir

Will Keir

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Hey guys, KETCH, SERIGO and any others out there.

There are a lot of us interested in a solid underwater housing for the epic. Ketch, I read you got yours (GATES "Deep Epic") and love it. Have you had a chance to post any reviews/thoughts/pictures or video results of your work with the epic? When you get a chance, please do, we would love to hear what you have to say and see some of the results of the Epic underwater.

It's great to know first hand, rather than online reviews and the like.

Also, would you mind using this forum as a spot people could ask further questions about the underwater housing and your experience using them?? Your time is much valued and appreciated, thanks in advance to all who contribute.
 
Will,

indeed we got the first Production Deep Epic, and awaiting the second one.

The first unit is now in Dubai, as I have chosen to gift my First position to a special friend, and I will be doing a first dive and a "Deep", pon intended... ) review soon,
but keep in mind that this is not just any under water housing, its GATES, which means is a Professional Under Water Housing, not too difficult to operate
but neither as easy as operating a Splash Proof Hosuing, or an housing by some other manufacturers out there, here you have lots of things to do,
and plenty of places specifically designed for adjustments and weight placement, 3 LGD's (lens gear drives), and lots of goodies, so you can expect nothing else but the very best,
form build quality to controls of Iris, Zoom ann focus, Redmote full controls and a clear view at the RED Touch Screen
via the top mounted or adjustable positioning Screen older, we also got a very long HD-SDI cable so to have out put monitoring for a second diver and or in
shallow depths for the Director seating on the Boat, or outside the water pool while filming girls in some cases... ;)


Not sure I'm in the liberty to post any grabs form the Manual, which is well done and in detail shows pictures and written explanations, but if John form GATES says its okay then I will.


But keep an eye on our site, and on here, I'll post a detail review soon, with a nice BTS video and actual EPIC UW footage to go with... ;)
 
Do they have an idea on cost yet? Same to you or something slightly more?
 
Paul Russell said:
Ketch, does the production model support the TouchScreen? The prototype I was using last week only supported the old non-touch screen.
Click to expand...

Paul -- the 5" RED PRO monitor is supported with a shell, but not touchscreen. If you're aware of a technology that can, I'm keen to know.
 
Will Keir said:
Do they have an idea on cost yet? Same to you or something slightly more?
Click to expand...

Hi Will,

Just under $20K for DEEP EPIC, monitor shell of your choice (5.6" or 5" RED PRO), Port + Port Extender and all the extras.

+1-858-391-0052 or PM, we can answer all your questions. You'll speak to Pamela as I leave the country tomorrow for 3 weeks.

J-
 
John J Ellerbrock said:
Paul -- the 5" RED PRO monitor is supported with a shell, but not touchscreen. If you're aware of a technology that can, I'm keen to know.
Click to expand...
LOL. Touchscreen would be nice, but right now quite impossible I'm sure. :-)

BTW, here's a shot taken at with the Deep Epic at -35m, on the wreck of the Japanese merchant marine ship Rio Di Janeiro Maru, sunk in Feb 1944, shot Jan 2012 at 3K, no denoise or sharpness adjustments, only levels in photoshop.
 

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So, has anyone shot a resolution test chart with this housing yet? Ketch, I hope your review would include it. SFR slanted rectangles would be good as a standard and repeatable way of measuring MTF, CA and distortions.
The frame grab above looks to my eye less than standard definition (I have seen sharper digi beta footage) - very soft, but could be just motion blur...in such case must have been a bit shakey considering 96 fps/sec (and assuming 1/192 shutter).
 
thanks Paul, do you have any shots on the sticks or when the camera was supported?
 
No, it was all handheld, and we were going very deep in low vis, so I had to keep the shutter times long and the aperture as wide open as possible. It was my first underwater shoot of any kind, so I had to do a few experiments in the wild. This was also why I was shooting in 3K as 5K didn't give me enough DOF. It took me a few dives to find the optimum lens/shutter speed/format before I could get usable footage, even with a pair of 400 lumens lights on the enclosure. THe sea just swallowed up the light after 3 metres.

And then there's the silt in the wrecks, but that's another story.
 
Paul,

I use twin 13,000 lm heads as a minimum. It makes a big difference.
Dome ports work best around f/8 due to field curvature that they introduce. Flat ports, on the other hand, work best fully wide open.

It's good idea to do lots and lots of pool trials, so when you dive in the ocean you can concentrate on the action before the camera rather than the settings.
Silt (or most commonly plankton and particles) is usually not a problem. Good dome ports can cut through the milky water as long as you do not create too much back scatter you can crush the blacks and imporove the contrast in post. But, if the footage is out of focus or blurry, there is little you can do. Most of my favourite shots were taken in less than 10m vizibility.
 
Pawel

We had twin Sola Video 4000 lights but as you say, more is better. We had no time for pool trials or any other because I only picked up the housing one day before going on the trip. It's early days for everyone in the Epic underwater club, as you know :-)

Most of the time we were at 35-50 metres, short of time and unable to use f8 without pushing the ISO to ridiculous levels. All that does is underexpose the material, so I went for exposure to reduce the amount of noise, and used the 14mm at 3K to increase the DOF.

I've learnt a lot from that week. Next time will be better results.

Incidentally, how are you controlling the camera with your housing?
 
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Paul Russell said:
It's early days for everyone in the Epic underwater club, as you know :-)
Click to expand...

We'll, some of us have almost a year with underwater Epic-M :-)


Minor rant follows:

When putting "review" material out, it would be helpful to know what other experience the reviewer has. Underwater is a completely different type of work and most of the people that I know of that are really good at analyzing the equipment have years of experience with multiple cameras, in a wide variety of situations around the world.

I have tremendous respect for Gates equipment and a good relationship with their people and the housings certainly have a very professional level of design, machining, etc. But sometimes it seems like comments I see around Reduser aren't really related to any other experience, and I'm not sure the housings are any more "pro" than the ones we make or those that have been made by others.

A lot of things that are important in above water cinematography aren't vary important for underwater - like long throw focus and accurate focus markings on cine lenses, par focal zoom (typically you shoot as wide as the lens will allow unless it is a macro-type subject and then you are normally just using zoom as a "variable prime"), etc.. And the very nature of water optically i.e. the fact that it is a progressive filter for both color and diffusion and that refraction means flat ports and dome ports have their advantages and disadvantages is a huge difference. While experience can be a guide in similar circumstances, in-depth knowledge of what is actually happening optically is important in being able to anticipate how it will affect new situations and more importantly in the context of a "review" understanding the optics is critical to evaluating what is really going on.There is tremendous variation in the color and clarity of water in different areas and even on different days or times of day. And there can be a dramatic difference in a shot with just a foot or two additional distance between camera and subject (I've mentioned in other posts how in many cases an 11mm tokina might provide a sharper picture than a 14mm Master Prime simply because the diffusion from the additional foot or two required to get the same framing will significantly soften the 14mm shot. Not to mention the added complexity of artificial lighting, where every inch of distance is altering the light.

Short of rigorous testing, unless you're confident the person has the knowledge and experience to analyze the situation, it is difficult for one to garner anything useful from these "reviews" or anecdotes.

There's a place for geared lenses, there's a place for motorized lens control, and there's a place for SLR lenses with internal motors and control; but none is really more "pro" than any other. And there's a place for full control of digital camera setup, but in truth a lot of that is rarely needed - a RedOne or Epic or Scarlet with basic setup and raw recording provides tremendous capability - beyond almost anything we have had before.

For the most part - beyond the basics like proper sealing, a good wide lens and basic ability to change focus and iris, and good port options - most of the "pro" aspect comes from the user and his/her ability to understand the variables and set things properly.

Then utilize your ability to find a good subject and use the tremendous flexibility of a weightless environment - where you are a dolly, a crane, a helicopter, etc. - to get a good shot.
 
I have to agree with Mike's rant. Even the best lens can produce very poor results underwater. Aligning pupil entrance with centre of the dome, size and quality of the dome, focussing, distance from the subject, direction and quality of light (both ambient and lights), time of the day...can make huge difference and they are much more important than the taking lens. In fact, in most cases, it is almost irrelevant whether you shoot with a Master Prime or Tokina...all other parameters seem to take much higher importance as the water/air intersection and water medium have by far the greatest influence on the image quality. Experience and testing are invaluable.
Also, I agree with lens selection: the wider the better. Get close to the subject, and then get even closer. Nice, soft, even and powerful lighting can enhance the quality greatly, but placement of the lighting is very critical. Avoid highlighting the water column between the lens and the subject, which will cause back scatter and poor contrast. If you are careful with lighting, you can achieve spectacular pictures even 3m visibility!
 
While I totally agree with you Michael, there are also more important aspects of any given review, and I will be sure to include them,
and even so my Under Water expereince might fall shy of some of yours, I am sure that I wil more then make u with my experience on
Cinematography and Photography, to insure that all important manners ot Cinematography and Photography are resepceted, and while I
might not have the equal expereince of some here, I do know extremely well all my tools, including Under Water Housing with their benefits and
limitations, as well as how they beheve under water with different Lens Ports and or Glass vs. Acrylic etc. So my review wil be faitfully represented in knowledge of this facts.


I will not however make it a Technical one, I never did such reviews never will, they get boring very fast, neither will I shot charts, sorry Pawel,
its just a waist of my time, if I am happy with what I get that is all I care for, no charts, I don't do thgose in Cinema or Photography above water
either so I wil sure not do them under it, I'm sure there wil be reviewers out there that love to do so, me, I prefer shoot actual subjects... ;)

What I will review is the Build of the rig, the way it handles under water in different situations, how easy it is to set up, how fast it is to set up,
how versatile the rig is, what is its range of lenses that it can use, and what that will mean to my work, Image quality, but again no Test Charts shooting for me,
and a load more of the fun stuff leaving the charts to some one else that has more experience on doing them and wishes to take the time to do them, not that
Image Resolution is not important to me, every one that knows me , in fact knows well that I have no compromises on Image quality, and I spare no expense to get the best I can... ;)


Here is a shot of the GATES DEEP EPIC next to the RED EPIC as to show the actual size of the Hosuing, and give an idea of what kind of housing this is,
similar to the DEEP RED, but a all different Beast, Love IT and can't wait to show some footage and Frame Grabs soon, lots of traveling to do TO GET THIS FOOTAGE, including,

ITALY
NEW ZEALAND
AUSTRALIA
RED SEA
MEXICO
BRASIL


And few other locations I'm scheduling up, just keep in mind that do to my health issues I will not be diving deep, not as deep as this unit can go, but will remain within 20 Meters, 60 or so Feet.

DEEP-EPIC-Red-Epic
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
...ITALY
NEW ZEALAND
AUSTRALIA
RED SEA
MEXICO
BRASIL


And few other locations I'm scheduling up....
Click to expand...

Don't forget Tasmania - arguably the best diving in the world :)
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Don't forget Tasmania - arguably the best diving in the world :)
Click to expand...
Yea of course, but I also have not mentiones South Africa, Cape Town durig the Fish Festival, the Sardins festival I beloeve lots of other predators gother during this times, but again Ill be a bit limited do to my health, but Ill be in good company at each location, just have to still get Doc's approval after my final Sport tests to see if my Hearth can take it... ;)
 
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