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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

future cameras vs red one

davecw said:
Just out of interest do these new hi-def recording DSLRs record sound too?!! If not there's a limited application for them.
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Dave the D90 has sound but its more like a mobile phone - very crappy & picks up everything. (i just shot a spot about the camera for a digital camera company)

Andrew.
 
Hi Zak,
Lets look at this from a business point of view, firstly your investment in
lenses will always be carried forward to the next pro camera body you
purchase. Epic,Penolope,Arri D21, whatever. The electronic camera body cost should always be written down ASAP thru depreciation, check with your accountant. At $17,500 it's nothing,write it off against income using a good Company structure. This is the most disposable part of the whole
deal, your lenses and other stuff like support, matt boxes, vehicles, LCD's
you can depreciate over a longer period of time.
Even look at a leasing structure for your next body purchase, in most countries, lease costs like renting are 100% tax deductable with a buy out option at the end.
Save your house money for buying houses and get smart dude.
Remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat , AND :
It's not the amount of money you make in business that counts, it's the amount of money you keep.
Cheers Mezmo
 
davecw said:
Just out of interest do these new hi-def recording DSLRs record sound too?!! If not there's a limited application for them.
Click to expand...

The 5D MII specs say that there is a 3.5 mm dia. Stereo mini jack for an external microphone.

I think the applications for the HD DSLR capabilities are fairly limited as there are fundamental technical issues concerning a slow rolling shutter. The D-90 has mega jelly (skew) and the 5d mark II has a little skew too. You can only shoot very slow subjects on very well set up cameras or shoot subjects where jelly is of no concern, such as moving water, geysers, clouds etc. As I understand the RED One is special for many reasons but one of them is this dual rolling shutter I hear about that is very fast. It seems that a true digital global shutter is still a ways off. We are rather desperate for our dynamic 3d extraction work to find a globally shuttered camera that doesn’t produce nasty looking images as in the case of globally shuttered industrial cameras. Has anyone here gotten nice results from high end industrial sensors?
 
No disrespect but I think that there is a touch of absurdity in fearing that a stunningly advanced technology that has just barely even emerged into the light could possibly already be obsolete.

I plan on using this camera (and the updates it will undoubtedly have) for the foreseeable future.


Rob
 
Rob Castiglione said:
No disrespect but I think that there is a touch of absurdity in fearing that a stunningly advanced technology that has just barely even emerged into the light could possibly already be obsolete.

I plan on using this camera (and the updates it will undoubtedly have) for the foreseeable future.


Rob
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is that RED ONE are the grand supreme masters of vapor ware (and I mean this in a positive sense).

We do R&D into some very advanced 3d imaging systems, and are just rolling out (hopefully Q1 2009) our first line of products. The research and systems we first built to demonstrate our capability first came about on late 2002. In 2004 we showed our technologies to relevant parties explaining that it will be a few years to market. The parties in question almost have gone completely berserk knowing that there are technologies that can greatly advance their cause and yet they are not available. We have seen things at SONY over ten years ago that are just about to hit the market. In the case of RED ONE their track record for enticing vapor ware is unprecedented and all the more powerful as they have shown that they do listen to their customers and it seems that they will deliver.

We try to design systems around product lines so that we know that our hardware and software will be “future compatible” and I think RED really offers this. There is always the risk that anything you buy will become obsolete the moment you buy it, but the real question is what can you do with the equipment right now? Our approach has always been to only push the button on high end equipment purchases at the last possible minute, we can do that because we are R&D. however if you have particular job that practically pays for the equipment then it’s a no brainer. However the somewhat unpredictable wait times for the RED One have stopped us from pushing the button on the Ones (experiment with red/rental and experienced operators instead).

I think RED ONE has created this culture where people fret over what their current buying strategy is based on future promised products, its an excellent blocking tactic (real genius) but it also makes people wonder what's around the corner from other companies that are less open about their future product lines.
 
Kreisky said:
The RED ONE will stand between Scarlet and EPIC !
So that could mean that you loose low budget customers to Scarlet
and high budgets to EPIC !
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I don't see losing any projects to Scarlet... I'll probably own one or two myself. But even if I don't, it's not the gear that defines my services and prices. I love my RED One, but in the end it's just another tool to get the job done. As will be Scarlet or the DSMC or EPIC.

Some act like it is impossible to mount a 35mm adapter in fornt of the Scarlet !
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Of course it's possible and we all know that it will happen. Oh wait, Scarlet has changed drastically as of yesterday. So all bets are off. But I will still agree that if Scarlet ends up with a fixed lens, that there will be 35mm mount systems for it.

The real question is that with Scarlet at approximately $3K + a good 35mm adapter at $1.5K~$3K and the bulk of the cost associated with any camera (RED, Epic, even Scarlet) will be tied up in accessories... Yes, that's an expensive 35mm adapter, but I don't see it being much less than $1500 on the low end due to the quality of ground glass and other components needed to due Scarlet justice. After all, this is a whole lot different than placing a spinning piece of glass in front of an HVX200. With all that, wouldn't it be better to just use the RED One? Of course, that's just my opinion... Many will still undoubtedly go the 35mm adapter route with Scarlet because they don't need the extra resolution and/or can afford the image quality of the adapter, but most indies will go this route simply because it's still a savings of $10K that they can dump into their production. ...IMO, if their budget is that restrictive, then they should rent their camera for their production anyway. But now we're into a whole other discussion...

the only ones who made good money to upgrade to EPIC or buy 10 Scarlets are the first 1000 RED owners ! who comes first, eats first !
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Why do you say that? Sounds like you're just talking resale value. Many RED owners, even ones who have just received their #3xxx cameras, have established customers and pending jobs.

......I understand the RED company ! they have to make profit !
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I think they're doing just fine. We can only guess about specifics, but it can't be all bad when they keep shipping cameras and accessories, announcing new products, improving current products, etc.. RED does business in a different way than the norm. Most public companies would have seen their stock values plummet in the wake of an announcement like yesterday's Scarlet news. But RED is different. I think if it were a public company, yesterday's announcement would have had the opposite effect.
 
I'm still able to make $800/day doing work with my DVX100, and my RED is not going to change that. If your future depends on always owning the best technology, be worried. If your future depends on your talent and resourcefulness, your RED will suffice for a very long time.

Julio
 
Welcome to the real world

Welcome to the real world

Anyone with a Red One that thinks Epic will not steal / migrate work is deluded. Ever since cameras were created both still & moving image they have been upgraded or superceded and they will continue to be. That basic $ 17,500 needs to be made back at most in 18 months otherwise your taking a huge risk a risk thats all the more harder because unlike previous cameras for commercials or features the numbers coming out of Red of cameras delivered lower permanently the revenues you can generate. By this time next year Red One cameras will be free your pay for what goes around it and peoples time. The numbers of commercials globally are not increasing nor are the numbers of films all the growth flattened out in 2006, more over a real threat of recession in the West is looming with the financial market crisis, employment rising etc so commercials & features numbers are more likely to fall.
Secondly to think Red would permanently have the party to itself is crazy others will join in and convergence with stills cameras is only part of that albeit at a very early stage. The move was started by including stills in DV cameras so the writing has been on the wall for some time. DSLRs sensor wise already outperform Red the speed of processing each frame being the limiting factor this is where convergence is catching up. Sound as 4K London notes is far easier to deal with so no stumbling block for a Nikon or Canon or the company better positioned Sony.
 
I am not worried about it at all. Be it Scarlet, or Epic. Remember Epic is a very expensive camera.. How expensive will be a direct result of the number of RED's accessories that it can use. If it uses 99% of them, then we're good to go. But if it uses 50% of them...That's a lot of bread.

Either way, I'm not worried. The RED One rules, and will do so for a few more years at least.

Jay
 
mezmo said:
Hi Zak,
Lets look at this from a business point of view, firstly your investment in
lenses will always be carried forward to the next pro camera body you
purchase.At $17,500 it's nothing,write it off against income using a good Company structure. This is the most disposable part of the whole
deal, your lenses and other stuff like support, matt boxes, vehicles, LCD's
you can depreciate over a longer period of time.

Save your house money for buying houses and get smart dude.
Click to expand...

ok i wasnt being serious about it being my house money as i had this is the plan for over 2 years.

still buying a place, dont worry.

its not even so much the body im worried about, my camera is paid off for the most part. so if i have to upgrade to a new version then so be it.

Im stressing over accessories too.
Will they transfer over?

now we have the 7'' lcd which looks amazing btw..
except it has the word "PRO" stamped on the back...
wtf??
what was my 1700.00 lcd purchase? Amature?
 
Guys,

Don't worry about it. Who cares. We have an amazing tool that is a dream come true. 4K is so freaking huge, we can use any type of cine lens we want, the quality is a freaking joke- This camera will compare to pretty much anything projected on the silver screen, so for me, I am happy as can be.

I would not sit around and worry about what else is coming out- go out there and make some movies, or images, or anything... Don't let the camera collect dust. Use it. The quality is there. Jim has done his mission. He continues to do his mission by giving us firmware builds that are absolutely amazing.

It kills me because I can't say what I have been doing with my RED since April. Soon I will be able to share this project with everyone, and I think everyone will really love what we have done. All I can say is enjoy the moment and enjoy the technology.
 
Statusfilms@yahoo.com said:
Guys,

Don't worry about it. Who cares. We have an amazing tool that is a dream come true. 4K is so freaking huge, we can use any type of cine lens we want, the quality is a freaking joke- This camera will compare to pretty much anything projected on the silver screen, so for me, I am happy as can be.

I would not sit around and worry about what else is coming out- go out there and make some movies, or images, or anything... Don't let the camera collect dust. Use it. The quality is there. Jim has done his mission. He continues to do his mission by giving us firmware builds that are absolutely amazing.

It kills me because I can't say what I have been doing with my RED since April. Soon I will be able to share this project with everyone, and I think everyone will really love what we have done. All I can say is enjoy the moment and enjoy the technology.
Click to expand...

That's the way folks,

Fear is a bad friend, just relax and use your camera.

Emmanuel
 
don't be a slave to the script supervisor evin. Have your 2nd communicate mag/roll on the slate and have the sound department deal with timecode. That's how it's always worked with film and it can be implemted like that on a red shoot. The 7" is absolutely amazing and you'll be missing out not using it. Scripties have become lazy in the hd world...

Justify your position by not wanting to encumber your directors monitor experience and shield him from the technical aspects of filmmaking as you should.
 
Perhaps manymoosh. Who knows what wonders are around the corner

However, Red One is a new concept in camera technology - there is a commitment that it is upgradeable. Mysterium X in 2009 and so on.

Also I like to think that the paradigm will be more like a fine microphone preamplifier. There is no reason why you cant still be using it in 10 years time.

Rob
 
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