Full Frame Prime Research - Medium Budget ~$5,000/lens or less

[Tom S]

I haven't purchased glass in over 5-6 years. It looks like a Full Frame Prime war is heating up and we are going to be the winners. I purchased the Schneider Xenon FF primes which I love, but they only released the 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm at first, so I bought an Angenieux Optimo 16-42. Its a very good combo but I would really like something faster at the wide end.

I have pretty much decided on getting a set of Sigma Cine Primes. It suits my needs, but there are some very interesting products coming out. Here is my quick cheat sheet if it helps anyone (opinions based on people who I consider solid lens guys). Many excellent options.

• Canon CN-E - Good, fast, lower resolution
• Canon Sumire - Specialty bloom
• Canon FD (rehoused) - Possible, old with variable condition
• Celere HS - No, quality issues
• DZOFilm Vespids - Maybe, new
• Irix Cine - Maybe, only 15mm, 45mm, and 150mm
• Kinefinity Mavo Primes - New, Bokkeh Bokkelux derivative T2, $12,000 set
• Meike - New, only 50mm
• Nisi F3 Primes - New, Bokkeh Bokkelux derivative T2, $12,000 set
• Nitecore Primes - New, Bokkeh Bokkelux derivative T2, $12,000 set
• Rokinon Xeen - Fair, not sharp wide open
• Schneider Xenon FF - Excellent, but CA on backlit or edge, especially 25mm & 35mm
• Sigma Cine FF - Excellent image, some breathing
• Sony CineAlta - Solid, heavy
• Tokina Vista - Excellent+, heavy
• Zeiss CP.2 - Good, heavy focus, bad 18mm
• Zeiss CP.3 - Excellent, xd data, only T2.9 @15mm, 18mm, 21mm
• Zeiss Otus - Excellent, not a complete set

A number of these primes are just hitting the market, haven't dropped yet, or have an incomplete set. Re-housed glass from Duclos or Zero Optik might also be good options. Any other good options around the $5,000/lens or less price point?

 

[Phil Holland]

Hi Tom,

Personal takes and I've fortunately seen all of these and own a few of them. And I'll do this totally out of order

Firstly, Schneider Xenon FF-Primes, the full set is in fact very nice and has a unique look compared to anything else on the list. Not the cleanest in terms of CA or whatever, but beautiful color rendition, middle/high contrast, and stunning bokeh.

On Monstro my main lenses have been Tokina Cinema Vista. Incredibly hard to beat and truly only compete with the Arri Signature Primes. The Sigmas are my go to compact primes that are also on the clean side of things. Hard to beat for the price for what they offer. Vista Ones, which are more expensive, have a cooler lens flare, but I have still ran with "vanilla" primes as they have a full range of focal lengths that's still growing.

Zeiss Otus, love them to bits. Still use them too. Downside are EF-Mount only. Plus sides, you can get them to be Cine-Modded via Duclos and they work better than most still lenses for motion picture work when modded. i.e. no image shift.

Nisi, Nitecore, and Mavo primes are in fact the same exact lenses under different branding. These were the Bokkehlux primes floating around for a bit and I suspected as much, which has since been confirmed from the vendor itself.

Canon CN-E, same glass generally as the EF counterparts. If you are fond of the 50mm f/1.2L and 85mm f/1.2L, you 'll find that love here. The Sumire bloom goes away rather quick when stopping down, you should test both side by side when considering these.

Canon FD, beloved for their vintage look which is why you see them rehoused. Leica-R should be a consideration as that can happen too really, though wildly different looks. FDs are nice, lower con, vintage coatings, etc.

Rokinon Xeens - Comparable actually to the CN-Es in many ways when it comes to look and now smaller in size and weight. A very entry level as mechanics haven't been totally improved upon, but decent starter set. I suspect if you are looking at Sigmas you won't want these anyways.

Celere HS - These are/were rehoused Rockinons with the 18.5mm actually being the Sigma 20mm f/1.4. The company is gone, so no more new lengths or support.

Irix! Their 45mm T1.5 is a joy and I like it. They will eventually release more high speed lenses, just hoping that happens sooner than later.

DZO Vespids - Got to see the prototype set for some time. APO and very nice look. Distortion is pretty wild across the set, but these were squarely built to be as small and high quality as possible with all other image related things being a side consideration. If distortion doesn't bother you and you want small optics with low CA, these are great. There's a 16mm coming next year too. I'll be getting a set to have on hand.

Meike - They have a full set coming for FF35. Like you said, only 50mm now, which I've seen and it looks good for what it is. Unfortunate not to have the rest to test just yet.

Sony CineAlta - One of the only S35 sets you put up here. They have a nice look to them, really nice bokeh too. You can find these used for a steal occasionally.

Zeiss CP.2 & CP.3 - If I was considering CPs in 2020 I'd go with the CP.3 everyday of the week. They've become a small lightweight cinema set with a broad range of focal lengths.


Price is such a variable across all these sets, build quality too, as well as image quality.

Clean Modern generally means to me: Tokina Cinema Vista, Sigma Cine, Arri Signature, Zeiss Supremes, Zeiss Otus
Somewhat sudo-Modern: Xenon FF-Primes, DZO Vespids, perhaps the Meike as they seem to lean here, Iris 45mm T1.5.

A tough choice: CN-E versus Rokinon. Size and some optical differences make it an interesting battle.

CP.3 - If you're on a gimbal all day, hard to go wrong.

Nisi/Nitecore/Mavo represent an entry level set to me. They get to Xenon FF levels of goodness occasionally, but aren't as "beautiful" in many ways. I actually don't like the 25mm from the N/NM set.

Real entry level when it comes to price is Xeen, Vespid, and Meike. Very different, very interesting in comparison because Xeen versus those two are very different looking lenses.


The bigger questions and things are if focus breathing is something you are not fond of or okay with. I tend to like minimal breathing lenses and the Tokina Cinema Vista, Arri Signature, and Vespids seem to be the 3 that excel in this arena. Then dipping to Supremes from there and the rest of everything is is a mixed bag when it comes to that performace. A few of the Sigmas are very low breathing, but the full set is not what I would describe as consistent on that front.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Do you feel the Xeen 50mm is really very different than the Irix 45mm ?

I'm not sure I feel that way...

Other than that the Irix 45mm feels like it performs really really well optically...

need to look again at how color rendition is...

I personally am not a fan of Xeen Color rendition on Skin Tones.

 

[Phil Holland]

^ Only downside to Irix at the moment in my mind is there's only 45mm T1.5. Flesh that set out and now we're talking. Love the flare off the 45mm.

 

[Matthew Capowski]

^ Only downside to Irix at the moment in my mind is there's only 45mm T1.5. Flesh that set out and now we're talking. Love the flare off the 45mm.

If Irix had a similar set of focal lengths to the Vespid primes, do you think you would prefer it over the Vespid lenses in general, if you could only have one of the two sets?

 

[Kevin DeOliveira]

If Irix had a similar set of focal lengths to the Vespid primes, do you think you would prefer it over the Vespid lenses in general, if you could only have one of the two sets?

+2 on this question.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Great thread. Like many, I consider the Sigmas the reference point for price/performance. The real kicker, at least in my world, is how small the Sigmas are. From the owner/op perspective, you want a set that can work on a wide variety of projects. The more often you need to sub-rent lenses, the more often your set isn't earning.

There's certainly more to choosing a lens set than practicalities, this is an art form after all. That said, if you really want to flavor a look primarily by lens characteristics, you can always rent as desired.

Cheers - #19