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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Full Frame Cinema Shootout 2020...

Full Frame Cinema Shootout 2020...

  • 1

    Votes: 54 74.0%

  • 2

    Votes: 2 2.7%

  • 3

    Votes: 9 12.3%

  • 4

    Votes: 2 2.7%

  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • 7

    Votes: 3 4.1%

  • 8

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • 9

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .
Evin Grant

Evin Grant

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Here it is friends, the Full Frame Cine Shootout 2020.


Here’s a podcast with filmmaker Noam Kroll discussing the test...

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...th-dp-evin-grant/id1228448011?i=1000467601482

This is the blind video comparison, the video with the cameras listed will be coming Thurs. the 6th.
This comparison is between the following cameras (not in this order)...

1. Arri Alexa Mini LF
2. Canon Eos C500mII
3. Red Monstro
4. Sigma FP
5. Sony FX9 (S-Cinetone)
6. Sony FX9 (S-Log3)
7. Sony Venice
8. Red Gemini
9. Red Helium

*Gemini used for studio and low light test only
**Helium used for studio only

All cameras were shot in their RAW codecs except the FX9 which was shot in XAVC-I 10bit. All cameras were lightly corrected using RAW controls in Resolve on a single timeline and split screened on a common calibrated Rec709 monitor for a neutral rendering. The AF capable cameras were shot with AF set to facial tracking.

The whole test was shot on Sigma 50mm T1.5 cine and 50mm 1.4 ART AF lenses except for the Canon C500mII which was shot with a 50mm 1.2 EF since there was no PL mount or EF Sigma available at the time of shooting.

Internal ND's or Firecrest NDs were used for exposure control. All exposures were set using a common waveform and native low/hi ISOs.

We intend this test to explore the subtle tonal and color differences between these cameras. Please watch and vote on your favorite in the poll, in a few days we'll reveal the actual cameras and see if your preferences line up with our expectations.

Here is a 4K 10bit Prores file to download from this Vimeo link, download Original...
(https://vimeo.com/388805758)
 
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Helps that we know 1, 8, and 9 for sure... :)

That Alexa mini LF is no joke. Absolutely amazing, though hard not to wonder if it's overkill given how great all these cameras look (except the FP and s-cinetone, but I feel like we knew that)
 
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Well #1 had no clipping at all in the overexposure push... wonder which one that is... haha

Very cool Evan, thanks for doing this!

#1, 2, and 9 look great color wise to me. Would be great to have a side by side at some point in the video.
 
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Šabović Adis;1884675 said:
#4 for me.
Click to expand...

I like your sense of humor :)

Would've been interesting to throw in some HDRx for fun, otherwise it may be too easy to spot the Alexa. Maybe change up the order a little too. Is there any chance anyone doesn't choose #1?
 
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  • #7
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
I like your sense of humor :)

Would've been interesting to throw in some HDRx for fun, otherwise it may be too easy to spot the Alexa. Maybe change up the order a little too. Is there any chance anyone doesn't choose #1?
Click to expand...

Well I was hoping people would look at the color rendering and not just clipping point, after all that's not actually a measure of usable DR.
 
Evin Grant said:
Well I was hoping people would look at the color rendering and not just clipping point, after all that's not actually a measure of usable DR.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, but can't they all be graded or even just LUTted for nearly any color rendering you want? The over under definitely gives away a lot since each camera has a known highlight range at "native ISO" that is arbitrarily set by the manufacturer. Camera tests are always so interesting since there are many different approaches. Thanks for all the work and for sharing it.
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
I like your sense of humor :)

Would've been interesting to throw in some HDRx for fun, otherwise it may be too easy to spot the Alexa. Maybe change up the order a little too. Is there any chance anyone doesn't choose #1?
Click to expand...

Wasn't joking.

Evin Grant said:
Well I was hoping people would look at the color rendering and not just clipping point, after all that's not actually a measure of usable DR.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
So do we know what's up with the FPs black level flickering? Maybe an artifact of insufficient cooling and black balancing and recording it to a cDNG stack?
 
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  • #11
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Ah yes, but can't they all be graded or even just LUTted for nearly any color rendering you want? The over under definitely gives away a lot since each camera has a known highlight range at "native ISO" that is arbitrarily set by the manufacturer. Camera tests are always so interesting since there are many different approaches. Thanks for all the work and for sharing it.
Click to expand...

They absolutely can be graded together but each camera still has a signature I find comes through, any one shot or set up might hive slightly different tonal or color differences that might make you choose one over the other. For instance I like two different cameras between the daytime and night work.
 
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  • #12
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
So do we know what's up with the FPs black level flickering? Maybe an artifact of insufficient cooling and black balancing and recording it to a cDNG stack?
Click to expand...

This has been fixed in the latest firmware apparently. We didn't have that when we were shooting.
 
Can you list the different creative luts you used on the different cameras?
 
Evin Grant said:
This has been fixed in the latest firmware apparently. We didn't have that when we were shooting.
Click to expand...

Great Test Evin, thank you.

Yes the current fp firmware has fixed this and they have been super attentive to other issues and requests. I grabbed one as a quick B cam because of the size and i'm blown away by the results. Benefits of full RAW and no compression give a nice solid image. The only thing i'd say is because it's 'generic' cDNG then there is no one workflow that does it all and i've found that working with the RAW images under an IPP2 workflow in Resolve yields very very nice results and a good match to Red footage - albeit with at least 2 stops less range.

You can spot the sigma in hand held because it's too light to hold, needs rigging and weighing down!

When comparing these you have to bear in mind how much the sigma is.

5 has an odd black curve where it's crushing the very very shadow part.

All of them look really good though...

Kindest,
Paul
 
Heh. Fingerprints are tough to cleanup sometimes.

Outside of color response, I think more interesting is the subtle differences in the tone mapping between each of these.
 
The #1 is clearly better in every way, good or bad scenarios, but I like the #3 in ideal conditions. #3 skintone are bright and pleasing, and the colors reproduction is just perfect.
Never the less, as a camera operator, I would choose #1 to be able to handle every scenario, but as a director who'd like to shoot only with good conditions, I would definitly choose #3, for the colors.

btw, I'm amazed at how good they all are in ideal scenarios. It's mostly a matter of taste.

The difference in over/under exposure on the 7 is so weird. Really good in over, just average under.
 
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