FLUT Science...

[Daniel Gourley]

Wow, Brook. Overwhelmed by your knowledge and passion. Thanks for takingthe time to post that!

 

[David Battistella]

Brook.

Just want to say that I, in no way, think that your posts are nothing other than you sharing your experiences and knowledge in the hopes of advancing the community and improving the product for all of us.

I, for one, do not see it as bitching, complaining or criticizing.

Thanks for your posts.

David

 

[Sarah C.]

I understand I've gone miles off topic. I'm excited for whatever FLUT brings and downright chuffed at what it might mean. That's just a glimpse into the state of things.

Best to all.

Nice write up. Looks to me you just related what FLUT needs to be thinking about.

~s

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

After reading some of you guys post leaves me a little loopey, DIT, LUT, FLUT etc. What do these acronyms stand for? Please elaborate in a short concise manner? hopefully I can get a clearer understanding. I will probably have to wait to get the Scarlet in my hands to fully understand.

Here are some basic / simplified answers-

DIT: Digital Imaging Technician. (A vital position in the camera department.)

LUT: Look Up Table. (A way to replicate a look, or visual representation of an image.)

FLUT: ??? We are still waiting for the final answer from RED. Some have guessed : Flexible Look Up Table, Film Look Up Table, among others. Basically it is the new color science that Red is implementing in the new sensor and camera systems.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I did two Genesis shoots, one the first we tried to create the LUT on set using Panavision's software and I could not get dailies to look correct when the post house received our LUT and applied it.

Second shoot, I created the LUT at the post house and applied it to the camera using the GDP, figuring that even if it didn't quite look right on the set monitors, it would look right in dailies because it was designed with the post house's monitors as a reference. That worked pretty well.

So now I'm of the belief that you have to create the LUT in the main environment it will be applied in -- if that's for dailies process, then it should be created in the post house doing the dailies. If it's for a D.I. process, then work it out at the D.I. facility. If it's simply for a set monitor look that doesn't have to translate anywhere else, then go ahead and just create it on the set. The problem is that no matter how hard you try, you cannot get two monitoring systems to look the same in different locations, particularly if your frame of reference is how it looks to your eye. Not to mention that the two locations may be using radically different display technologies. So you have to pick what will be your main reference for the image and figure all the other representations are merely approximations of varying accuracy.

 

[Cedric Akins]

Here are some basic / simplified answers-

DIT: Digital Imaging Technician. (A vital position in the camera department.)

LUT: Look Up Table. (A way to replicate a look, or visual representation of an image.)

FLUT: ??? We are still waiting for the final answer from RED. Some have guessed : Flexible Look Up Table, Film Look Up Table, among others. Basically it is the new color science that Red is implementing in the new sensor and camera systems.

Thanks Ryan. This helps me out. Now I will make sure to read over the posts again.

 

[David Battistella]

The problem is that no matter how hard you try, you cannot get two monitoring systems to look the same in different locations, particularly if your frame of reference is how it looks to your eye. Not to mention that the two locations may be using radically different display technologies. So you have to pick what will be your main reference for the image and figure all the other representations are merely approximations of varying accuracy.

David,

Thank you for writing this. I think it's the core of the issue, while anyone might think RED can create a system that will deliver the Colors you intended, there are to many variables in a Color chain to be able to guarantee accuracy.

It seems that with any shoot there needs to be a dialog or pre-production with the LAB and the DOP to establish best practices going into the shoot.

No LUT program is going to solve all of the problems, so it still will come down to exposing the RAW image correctly, looking at the image in RAW view, having a good histogram and knowledge of the tools you are working with.

David

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I of course didn't mean the "Final LUT" thing literally, though most obviously realized that based on the .

I would never finish off anything other than the .R3Ds, and consider an extremely accurate, precise and reliable way to get my DP's vision from the set to the finishing session worth whatever it will take. Hopefully the DP can also come back for that final where he can look back and the finished product after months of clearing his head from it and give it a second pass together with me and the colorist.

 

[David Battistella]

I of course didn't mean the "Final LUT" thing literally, though most obviously realized that based on the .

I would never finish off anything other than the .R3Ds, and consider an extremely accurate, precise and reliable way to get my DP's vision from the set to the finishing session worth whatever it will take. Hopefully the DP can also come back for that final where he can look back and the finished product after months of clearing his head from it and give it a second pass together with me and the colorist.

Hey you saw the smile after my post didn't you?

To your other point. I've noticed that my color decisions can change dramatically once the images are actually "cut" together in a sequence.

It's all good man. I was kidding around.

 

[Eric Haase]

On a lot of shoots it's very important to get the dailies LUT as close as possible to your intention as a cinematographer. Often it is the best and clearest way to communicate your vision for how the footage SHOULD look. You are not always available or included in the final color grade (commercials)- think shooting in L.A. with agency from New York, etc. Additionally, having a great looking set of dailies goes a long way for job security and getting necessary resources after day 1 to achieve what you're going for. Spot on dailies build confidence and morale amongst crew and producers and this can further drive the success of a production.

For all these reasons, it does worlds of good to have more control and input variables in generating dailies LUTs, along with more accurate ways to view/monitor the image while creating these LUTs. When I started shooting film, I would take notes describing the look I was going for (along with setting printer lights for printed dailies) and send the notes along to the colorist. Then with DSLR photography coming on the scene I would shoot digital stills of each setup, grade in photoshop and send these images along. Now, with the (relatively) new non-destructive workflows we can create LUTs. Finally a company has come along that will listen to what cinematographers REALLY want. I, for one, welcome as much non-destructive LUT control over the image on set as you will give us. Ideally, I'd have a full grading suite with a colorist creating LUTs as we go! Can't wait to see what the FLUT system has in store as the next step in on set LUT creation and control.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Oh yes, I know, just thought I should be a bit more clear anyway.

You make a good point, that is exactly why I think grading off R3Ds is so important.

I certainly want my DP's vision, and I will do what it takes to properly record it when he is creating along with me on set. The whole idea of hiring a DP is that you believe he mastered the visual art better than yourself, so I want a 100% accurate recording of what he felt was best while we were inspired by the process. Ideally you and your DP will have made the right choices on set, and all that will remain to be done is augmenting and finessing that look in a way that you can't on set, and work on consistency through every individual scene obviously.

But like you said, once you see it all together you have an advantage you didn't on set, you have the finished cut! There you can get even more out of contrast from scene to scene. Having the DP for that process is just as important, IMO, cause again you hired him because you trust his mastery of the visual art to be superior to yours... once again you get to create together, based on what you built on set, and with all of the information still available, none of that baked in nonsense! A perfect workflow!

Spot on dailies build confidence and morale amongst crew and producers and this can further drive the success of a production..

Not to be understated!

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

There is more than one way to manage color from set to post.

There is more than one way to manage color from set to post.

Yuri's 3cP solution is one of the best color management systems I have seen. The GUI is wonderful, it handles oodles of source formats and provides the ability to use multiple LUTs to manage input variables, color space conversions and display profiles. It is limited to rec709 color space, which is both a strength (its a widely used standard that is available on all professional monitors I have seen in the last few years) and also a limitation for those who plan to finish in P3 (DCI) color space.

Other higher end options like the Davio, GDP and LUTher boxes can enable high color fidelity workflows as well if you match them properly to your particular pipeline. The Davio is particularly configurable and works well in tandem with the CineTal monitors. Many people swear by the Iridas SpeedGrade system, I look forward to doing a show with it.

In my own little RED centric world I built out a Sprinter Van (The Road Grader™) with a Scratch system, RED Rocket™™™™™™™, Dulce Systems ProRXqp RAID, JL Cooper Spectrum control surface, ECinema color reference monitor all in a proper viewing environment right on (or near) set. My system allows real time grading of r3ds with all the metadata stripped off. The look is typically baked into offline editorial media and provides the starting point for final color. For some clients this "one light" pass serves as both offline and finishing media if there is no time or budget for a proper conform and grade from the r3ds.

There are several big advantages including a disregard for the accuracy of the SDI output boards, on set monitors, etc. The video tap has improved in the newer builds but it is only an approximation of the recorded RAW image information! It is also a treat to have Assimilate's Scratch digital process solution at hand. It has a terrific toolset for the kind of precise adjustments Brook refers to and can crank out virtually any format under the sun in real time.

Of course 99% of people using the RedOne don't have the Road Grader™ handy (if you'd like to, please PM me) so I share everyone's enthusiasm for the new color spaces, greater precision and myriad features we all hope for from the new FLUT Science.

IMHO: consistent, easily achievable results should raise industry-wide appreciation for the quality of RedOne images. M-X, Epic and other hardware improvements may quicken the pulses of camera geeks like myself (and a few of you reading this far ;-) but unless more people can get a big patch of that rubber on the road the more "pre-cooked" HD cameras from well known vendors will remain the "safe" choice for many projects.

Cheers - #19
alacritymedia(dot)com

 

[Ajit_AP]

Thanks Brook.

 

[Frank Weeks]

Brook, your insight is enlightening.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Joel Jameson]

Thank you Brook and all, great information to digest!

 

[Brook Willard]

No worries everybody, glad to chime in. I hope it gets read by the right folks! There's a lot of nonsense like this swirling in my head, all it takes is a good opportunity for feedback and discussion to get it out.

 

[Alex Mack]

No worries everybody, glad to chime in. I hope it gets read by the right folks! There's a lot of nonsense like this swirling in my head, all it takes is a good opportunity for feedback and discussion to get it out.

Hey, if there is any place to talk about stuff like this, this is it.
One's ideas have real impact with Red.:smile5:

 

[Jannard]

Brook has added a lot of good ideas to the RED program and we certainly listen. Some things would be nice and are possible... some would be wonderful but aren't. At least for now.

Jim

 

[Brook Willard]

Thanks, Jim.

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

Very interested in RedFilm. Can't wait to see some footage. Wont be able to make it to Red Day but I hope the footage will be shown here not to long after.