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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FLUT Ignorance

From the playing with fLUT I've done, it seems to me like an extra ISO/exposure controll that has an analythical highlight protection curve + possibly the DRX allignment function built in. It still adds the same amount of grain as the old tools.

I have to admit I haven't paid enough attention to the exposure/ISO tools to see that the highlight protection has been built in to them, but that seems logical.

As a sidenote, I allways considered RedSpace as the make of evil forces who wanted my camera to become a lumix... (allmost) allways swearing to CamRGB/redlog, and flat WB as the best startingpoint for allmost all online situations, and if anything I'd lower the ISO for post to avoid ugly noise, I really dig the RedColor.

As a pre build -15 nostalgist... (slightly ironic here, but still...) I would love a "RAW" RAW development mode, like we had in the beginning, without any blurs in any channels. The "You're left on your own, but here it is" sorta mode we had in the early days.

I know it's not for all, and not really for the shoot quickly deliver @ once gigs, but it worked rather nice and gave a lot of latitude back in the days, if you managed to keep your image within the limits...

Anyway, I gather... that's just me...

And it isn't to say that I don't apprechiate the simplicity of some of the new tools.

But I guess as MX is taking over the ground, the wish is rather irrelevant.

And conform tools for RCX are much more important, after all...
 
Graeme's and Deanan's answers should be dug out of this thread and integrated into Thoughts and Tips...

really helpful and important to understand in manipulating the FLUT control in relation to the other controls.
 
So if I understand correctly, the following formula is correct:

APPLIED_FLUT_ISO = ISO_SETTING * 2 ^ FLUT_SETTING

So it's simply two controls that affect the same FLUT parameter.

Am I right?
 
You're right.

Graeme
 
Adrian T. said:
So if I understand correctly, the following formula is correct:

APPLIED_FLUT™_ISO = ISO_SETTING * 2 ^ FLUT™_SETTING

So it's simply two controls that affect the same FLUT™ parameter.

Am I right?
Click to expand...

Graeme, could you explain that formula in long hand. I can't follow the symbols in the above explanation. Thank you.
Joe
 
Gunleik Groven said:
As a pre build -15 nostalgist... (slightly ironic here, but still...) I would love a "RAW" RAW development mode, like we had in the beginning, without any blurs in any channels. The "You're left on your own, but here it is" sorta mode we had in the early days. ...

Anyway, I gather... that's just me...
Click to expand...

I'm with you Gunleik, that's precisely what I would like to have. Always feel uneasy with the Microsoft kind of reasoning that results in software that tries to guess what the user wants to do. Saying this, I still appreciate that other people see it differently.

Haven't yet figured out whether there is anything in FLUT what one could not do by adjusting the exposure and gamma curve. My guess is that Graeme's target has been to help the users to avoid clipping highlights in post; If highlights are not clipped in the R3D file, they won't clip in post --and this is not a bad idea at all. But it's not clear at all how this implies my old footages should loook any better? What does make a clear difference is the new "color science" which evidently yields a more accurate color reproduction.

While have had this kind of thoughts during the last days have also realized that many R1 users want or even need to set the colors pretty accurately already when shooting. Especially so, when one uses lights. As a wildlife shooter my needs are quite the opposite. Light is given and cannot be adjusted. Rather often when a situation pops up need to get the camera to record as quickly as ever possible and have no time to set anything else than the iris and shutter speed. So there is neither time to set the WB, Look, color gains, or the FLUT in the future. This is also why I prefer raw metering that clearly and quickly indicated where I have set the exposure from the sensor's point of view. Afterwards in post there's plenty of time to adjust the colors properly.

My two cents behind this post is that I hope that unlike Microsoft RED did not put all the eggs in the same basket assuming what fits to many or most is automatically the best to everybody.
 
Yes, there's the new CS which is a radical departure on the more traditional techniques we'd been using previously, and that indeed leads to more accurate colour with better differentiation between similar colours.

The other side of FLUT is much higher precision math behind the scenes and some new and innovative ways in which the math is done. From that you can take that it's more accurate, more precise.

Graeme
 
ISO works in 1/3 stops... FLUT™ in .1 stop increments. More precise. And... you can keep track of the intended ISO at the time of shooting.

Jim
 
So an increase of 10 FLUT points would be equal to ONE full stop increase?
 
Ok, it all makes sense now..

Each ISO increase/decrease equates to 1/3 of a stop.

Each FLUT™ point equates to 1/10 of a stop

FLUT™/ISO are interrelated. FLUT™/ISO will not clip your channels if you choose to increase increase
 
Richard Darge said:
Ok, it all makes sense now..

Each ISO increase/decrease equates to 1/3 of a stop.

Each FLUT™ point equates to 1/10 of a stop

FLUT™/ISO are interrelated. FLUT™ will not clip your channels if you increase, but ISO will/can.
Click to expand...

ISO should NOT clip in the new FLUT Science program. It used to... it doesn't anymore.

Jim
 
Does FLUT Science start at the sensor/camera internals or is it on the post side, or both! ?
 
Richard Darge said:
Does FLUT™™ Science start at the sensor/camera internals or is it on the post side, or both! ?
Click to expand...

It is both... it works only in post, but better if also in camera. All the M-X builds have it in camera. There will be a new build for the M sensor that includes FLUT™ Science very soon. We are testing that build now.

BTW... FLUT Science is more than just the FLUT control. It is a new way to meter, new histograms, new false color (RAW Check), and new camera settings.

Jim
 
ok So FLUT is the alternative to the Exposure spinner which linearally offsets the entire image.

Does FLUT only protect from clipping 1.0 or does it also avoid clipping at 0.0?
 
Looks like I'm not doing a very good job here... Graeme, can you step in and help me out?

Jim
 
I have a really good feeling about this FLUT thingy...
 
so why am I using flut? or asa in post?

I want to expose properly onset...

I get that sometimes you want/need to push or pull the stop in post.. but from what ive been reading.. it seems like people are relying way to much on the post control of their exposure... Help me understand this
 
I thought you were doing a great job, but I can have another go....

FLUT is a name we are giving to a new set of image processing features in post and in camera. As Jim mentions, along with it comes new histograms, new false color, and new camera settings. The work done on FLUT has helped to enable these functions in camera.

But let's talk about how FLUT works with image processing, and how specifically it deals with the concept of "gain".

Gain is a necessary part of image processing and it's simplest to think of it as the most basic way to brighten an image. Traditionally, gain in camera was done in the analogue domain. The downside to this is that as the image is gained up, it causes bright highlights to clip, and indeed it will loose one stop of highlights to clipping for every stop of gain applied. Originally in our camera and software, we applied gain (under the controls ISO and exposure) in a way that worked just as analogue gain does.

Although it sounds simple enough to just adjust the gain so that it does not clip the highlights, like a traditional video "knee", the devil is always in the details. Instead of a gamma option, which is what a traditional knee is, it was decided to build the smooth roll-off and non-clipping gain properties into a complete system, which much more suits the RAW development nature of working with the R3D files.

This means that while all RAW development controls benefit from the underlying FLUT math, the main controls that directly effect it are ISO and the new FLUT Control. ISO and FLUT Control work together and produce exactly the same results, but FLUT control is calibrated in stops and has a fine degree of control, whereas ISO is labeled in traditional units and 1/3 stops. They work together, so if you gain up on ISO and back down the same amount on FLUT, they cancel each other out. If you gain up on ISO and add more gain on FLUT, you can get an awful lot of gain. You can use ISO, or you can use FLUT and get to exactly the same point. You can roughly gain up the image with ISO and fine-tune with FLUT control. The choice is yours. I love FLUT control as it's in stops, and to me, that's a more natural way of thinking than the ISO numbers.

Sometimes, however, you may wish to have absolutely linear gain and clip those highlights, so "exposure" control works just as it did before - it's pure linear gain and it will hard clip. However, because FLUT is an underlying system - all is not lost...

Take the user curve controls for example, they'll allow you to "pull back" a highlight you've forced to clip through use of the "exposure" control. Or the new Lift/Gamma/Gain controls will also allow you to do the same and pull back highlights you've clipped earlier in the image processing chain.

So, to put it all together simply:

FLUT is an underlying technology, designed to help you avoid clipping unnecessarily.
It works primarily through ISO and FLUT Control, but helps all RAW development controls.
Exposure works just as it's always done if you need it.
The ISO and FLUT controls work together - think of them as "better gain"

Graeme
 
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