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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Fixed Scarlet Wide Angle abilities

Gabriel Sharp

Gabriel Sharp

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I'm currently shooting on a 550D, which was such a treat to upgrade to from a camcorder, because I could slap a 10mm lens on.

I love wide angle.

How wide does the Scarlet go, in terms I can relate to my DSLR?
 
Solomon Nero said:
Upsetting? Thats pretty wide man...were you looking for fisheye on a zoom fixed lens?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a student and the Scarlet fixed looked like my only chance of owning a Red Camera.
I might still end up going for it, but I only wish it sacrificed the zoom for the wider end of the range.

Oh well. I know I'm not at all representative of most people. :)
 
Well hopefully the fixed will be able to take a high quality ultra wide angle adapter, something like the Aspheron adapters which were used on 16mm cameras. As long as this doesn't throw out the basic functionality of the lens in some way, it is an option I would look for.
 
I believe there'll eventually be super wide and telephoto adapters for the Fixed. I think it's too soon to decide if you want the SCARLET-F or not, but I honestly don't think that you need to worry - and especially not this "early".

Even though the SCARLET-F might not deliver SUPER wide natively (remember, it'll still deliver a pretty wide image, regardless), I'd still go for it if it was the only option to own a RED camera as you yourself expressed. If RED doesn't come up with an adapter solution, someone else eventually will - almost certainly.

Stay positive, and wait just a bit longer before you make a final decision. ;)
 
Nuka Wølk said:
I believe there'll eventually be super wide and telephoto adapters for the Fixed. I think it's too soon to decide if you want the SCARLET-F or not, but I honestly don't think that you need to worry - and especially not this "early".

Even though the SCARLET-F might not deliver SUPER wide natively (remember, it'll still deliver a pretty wide image, regardless), I'd still go for it if it was the only option to own a RED camera as you yourself expressed. If RED doesn't come up with an adapter solution, someone else eventually will - almost certainly.

Stay positive, and wait just a bit longer before you make a final decision. ;)
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Thanks. I will, just a bit more to consider.
 
17mm is considered wide-angle by most filmmaking standards -- look at Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil" for example, a lot of that was shot on an 18mm. For a typical narrative feature, the fixed zoom ratio will cover you 90% or more of the time, it would only be for extremely stylized effects that you would use something shorter, but I'm sure some sort of wide-angle adapter will be developed. The number of 10mm-ish shots in 35mm Hollywood movies are extremely small, I'd have to point out the 9.8mm Kinoptic shots in some Kubrick movies for example.

The thing is that an audience accepts what focal-length you choose to shoot on, so assuming you can get the shot with a 17mm in a pleasing composition, they don't know that you would have preferred to use a 14mm or 12mm, etc. I think most people would have more problems making a movie with the fixed-lensed Scarlet if it went from extreme wide-angle to normal, with no telephoto, rather than going from normal wide-angle to telephoto as it currently does.

It's just me, but sometimes I think of super wide-angle lenses as toys that beginners get fascinated by before they actually start having to make movies with actors doing dramatic scenes. However, there are plenty of artistic exceptions to that, but I notice that extremely stylized lenses tend to excite young people because they are immediately distinctive and make a shot stand out. However, I hate the idea that a shot only is interesting because of the lens rather than the content in front of the lens...
 
This should cover most uses, for most people. My widest lens right now on Epic is 16mm, and it's fine for most occasions.

If you really want to see how a master uses wide lenses, plan to see Terrence Malick's film TREE OF LIFE May 27th. It is my understanding that not a single shot in the entire film has a longer focal length than 24mm!! Take a look at the trailer. All of the shots are ultra wide.

Shooting extremely wide has also become something of an obsession for me, despite my lack of super-wide PL lenses. :(
 
As David Mullen and Tom Lowe pointed out, the "limit" on the widest you can go on the SCARLET is in most cases more than sufficient. Though it won't achieve "The Gilliam" (14mm) fov, it's still within a similar reach.

Even though Kubrick has utilized some ultra wide fov, it is said that he in most cases preferred the 18mm, and if you look at his body of work you'll notice how wide he often shoots - especially noticeable in his master-shots or "obscure" close-up's. Also check out some of Emmanuel "Tree of Life" Lubezki's other work - like Children of Men, which was mostly a 18mm and 21mm show.

I agree with David Mullen when he says that if you go ULTRA wide, it'll perhaps get too extreme for narrative work. FISHEYE will probably be considered too alien a POV for the audience - but don't let me stop you from trying - I'd LOVE to see it work through an entire film. I figure if you'd stay with the ultra wide lenses throughout, then maybe it could probably work :)
 
If you want advice on how to adapt fixed zoom unibody cameras to wider/longer shots, you need to ask someone who has done a lot of that type of shooting. I'm one of those guys who has...

There are many genres the fixed lens Scarlet will be used extensively for - and some of them use wide angle shots regularly - sports, nature, travel, music, various documentary shots, and many more genres. Red said from the very beginning they would be making wide converter (and 2x extender) lenses for the fixed lens Scarlet. Several months ago Red also said the converter and extender were on hold, but would eventually be made.

For mobile field production with fixed zoom cameras for the genres I mentioned above (and many others), a wide converter and 2x (or 1.6x) extender is simply a regular part of a field kit. Those lens add-ons are regularly carried in a small waist pack for quick addition/removal. Some are bayonet and some are screw-on.

The fixed lens Scarlet has internal ND filters, which makes using wide converters and extenders that much easier - simply clamp, snap, or screw the add-on lens into place without also having to place a filter on the front of the add-on lens. No matte box is necessary for these mobile genres - a MB would reduce your mobility with its extra bulk and weight.

My guess for the magnification or strength of the add-on lenses Red will make is simply that - a guess. In wide adaptors (not zoom through) a common one is .65x. In wide converters (full zoom through), .8 is common. In extenders, a 1.6x and 2x are common.

Until Red makes their wide converter and extender add-ons, I'll use Century (Schneider) add-on lenses on the fixed lens Scarlet. I've always had good results with Century's add-on lenses, especially with fixed zoom, unibody cameras like Scarlet. Century just announced a new range of HD wide adaptors, converters, fisheyes, and extenders for the Canon XF305/XF300, Canon KT zoom on the JVC GY-HM700, and Sony PMW EX3/EX1. Some of them may work with the fixed lens Scarlet, but then again it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Century quickly make 2/3" add-on lenses directly targeted for use with the fixed lens Scarlet. After all, they've been making add-on lenses for HD 2/3" use for many years now. Here's a link to an article in TV Technology about the new Century add-on HD lenses: http://tvtechnology.com/article/120228

Bottom line: stop stressing about getting wider (or longer) for shots real quickly with the fixed lens Scarlet. It will be a quick and easy process.

There are no problems - only solutions
 
Steve Gibby said:
[...]For mobile field production with fixed zoom cameras for the genres I mentioned above (and many others), a wide converter and 2x (or 1.6x) extender is simply a regular part of a field kit. Those lens add-ons are regularly carried in a small waist pack for quick addition/removal. Some are bayonet and some are screw-on.
Click to expand...

From my POV bayonet mount would be ideal. But I've never seen or heard of anything like that on the Fixed. If it's not too late that would be a very convenient feature. Especially since I think any wide converter will need to be pretty large considering the 2/3 sensor (as opposed to converters for 1/3 or 1/2 inch).

If Mr. Gibby would like to weigh in on this, I'd appreciate his opinion.
 
Thank you Solomon...

Steve - clamp and bayonet add-on lenses are always quicker to attach/detach than screw on. Ideally the add-on lenses used on fixed lens Scarlet will be clamp or bayonet. If not, screw ons will take a little longer to put on and take off, but they will still be workable. If I remember correctly the fixed lens on Scarlet is threaded on the end. You're right on the size. If you check out the past Century add-ons for 1/3", 1/2" and 2/3", each is necessarily larger (and heavier). Century makes clamp, bayonet, and screw-on types. Most of their 2/3" add-ons mount via a clamp which slips over the outer front of the lens barrel its mounted on, then a small screw on the side of the clamp tightens it down. Hopefully when Red makes their add-ons they will be a clamping sleeve design.

I have no connection with Century whatsoever, and never have. I've just used a lot of their lenses over the years with good results.
 
Thanks, Steve. Clamp and sleeve type sounds quick and easy to mount with one-hand.
 
Great responses. I'd never considered using an adaptor because I presumed they would lose quality. But I suppose that was a silly presumption to make about a RED product.

Also the 10-24mm I use is full frame, it's just nice to have that extra bit to go to. It's just how I imagine shots in my head, so I'm usually unhappy to go elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks to Mr. Gibby I am no longer worried. And The Tree of Life looks great.
 
Gabriel Sharp said:
Great responses. I'd never considered using an adaptor because I presumed they would lose quality. But I suppose that was a silly presumption to make about a RED product.

Also the 10-24mm I use is full frame, it's just nice to have that extra bit to go to. It's just how I imagine shots in my head, so I'm usually unhappy to go elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks to Mr. Gibby I am no longer worried. And The Tree of Life looks great.
Click to expand...

actually this 10-24mm in your camera gets a 1.6 crop which makes it 16-38mm...so the scarlet is not far away from it...
 
I saw Scarlet at NAB and was very impressed with its wide-angle ability. I don't really think I'll need to go wider than that, but I do see myself needing a tele adapter. probably a 1.6 would do the trick, but I might even look for a x2 adapter for those stylized long-lens closeup shots. for the most part though, the stock zoom lens of the Scarlet is very useful and will certainly cover all the most common situations, and the wide side of it is really wide. anymore than that and you're really looking at a special effect rather than just a wide angle.
 
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