First Glimpse of Epic Tattoo?

[Joseph Hutson]

This was said regarding the EPIC as far as I remember. And Scarlet is trailing behind EPIC.

I wish I knew where to find the quote, but Martin is correct. That would mean before Sept 21st. That would mean that the Stage 2 EPIC needs to be out by July 20th for their last estimates to be correct. This also means that they have 2 months to do what they need with Tattoo before they ship if they want to stay on Schedule...

 

[Nick Grow]

I wish I knew where to find the quote, but Martin is correct. That would mean before Sept 21st. That would mean that the Stage 2 EPIC needs to be out by July 20th for their last estimates to be correct. This also means that they have 2 months to do what they need with Tattoo before they ship if they want to stay on Schedule...

Is this the quote you're referring to that Jim posted after the Feb. 13th RED DAY:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=553478&postcount=320

Nick

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Is this the quote you're referring to that Jim posted after the Feb. 13th RED DAY:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=553478&postcount=320

Nick

One of them, yes. :laugh:

Of course, I won't hold him to it. They aren't wasting time, that's for sure...

 

[Michael Hastings]

A friend of mine who runs a rental place says that by the time you've outfitted a 5D with all the gear to make it work like a cine camera, it costs about as much as a basic R1 kit.

And I think that a lot of people who chose the 5D over the R1 (for rental) do so not primarily for cost reasons, but for the form factor, weight and low light performance.

A lot of people don't WANT it to work like a cine camera - for many that is the whole point. I don't want my Epic to work like a cine camera either - I want it to work like a tight ENG/EFP camera with the image quality of film and even better resolution.

You can hang all that cine crap on ANY camera . (Obviously I'm just kidding, I know when cine follow focus, matte boxes, etc. are necessary - but I also know when they are not and that's why I am excited about Epic's modular but solid form factor.)

 

[Michael Hastings]

I think the problem is there are a decent amount of people who are now losing business to Canon DSLR...that is why a lot of people are asking for a faster release of EPIC. I myself have had a few clients who were RED advocate switch to Canon DSLRs (I just lost one more client today as a matter of fact)...now I personally don't care as I think the DSLR don't even come close to RED and I still have enough business to not worry about it....but there is a fundamental shift in people's perception and right now shooting DSLR seems to be the hot thing...the competition cannot be ignored (even though it's a far inferior competition IMHO) but sometimes you can miss your window of opportunity if you are not careful. I am not saying RED should rush everything out, but I don't believe waiting til 2011 would be a wise move either....

I agree. We are already a year past the initial target date and it looks like it will end up being close to 18 months unless something is pushed out soon. That is basically an entire Moore's law cycle past the initial target.

And that is a real issue. Although there are certain types of film and commercials that are still specifying RED, there is also a huge amount of "normal" production that has moved in other directions. Whether the perception of "too big, too expensive, too much hassle" or whatever is correct or not doesn't matter - in terms of paying clients, perception is reality and the combination of those means that RED1 use has tapered off dramatically. If RED wants to help a lot of us that are in a bit of a holding pattern they will prioritize an expeditious delivery schedule.

Even though I fully understood that my initial $1000 R1 deposit back in April 2006 would probably sit for a long time, I have been telling people that I didn't think RED would have demanded a $5000 deposit unless they had a pretty clear idea that we were just 2 or 3 months away. However the lack of any announced tattoos or engineering progress or schedule updates does cause one to wonder. I'm in for the penny and the pound but I have to admit to some concern.

 

[Andrew Luczenczyn]

If these are indeed the Tattoos, they have been shooting for a few weeks, as we've seen from Tattoos like Ghost. The Tattoo program was only suppose to be a few months long anyway, so I figure that there will be another month of testing, another month to make design changes based on the input, and then begin ramping up for production.

Also, remember that the manufacturing can start while software changes are still being made.

I remain to have faith that EPIC will be released this summer, and that its very likely to have my scarlet in my hands by Christmas

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Epic Timing

Epic Timing

This is the reasoning I used when I predicted the release of Scarlet in the approximately October time frame in another thread.

1) There are already several prototype Epics shooting footage as we speak.
2) It is my opinion that, unless Jim is flat on his back while recovering his health, he is probably spending several hours every day with his own Epic testing it like no one else can
3) I think we are close to the beginning of the Tattoo program and will see it kick off between June 1 and June 15
4) I think Tattoo will last 30-45 days and that they will be doing fixes on a daily basis whenever they find things that need fixing.
5) Once Tattoo is complete, it will take another 15 days or so to "button up" the issues that remain
6) Then, Stage 2 will start and Epics will begin shipping - some time in August...

...

(I go on to predict Scarlet release in about October, but that isn't the point here.)

I believe I have been proven right on points 1-3 already. I still think Tattoo will be completed and buttoned up in 60 days, as I indicated in points 4-5. Maybe I am off on that but it still seems to me a pretty good estimate. I wouldn't be too surprised to be off by 30 days but I still think this schedule is reasonable.

We'll see, eh?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Guys,

I do have 7D and one friend of mine has 5DMK2.

Nice still cameras that can also sometimes deliver a gorgeous 1080p

but that's a league (1080p) that Alexa can be afraid of and became soon a kind of "dead" born kid.

Arri did a lot of "bribery" sort of tricky advertising especially in a field of "die hard" film cinematographers

to present Alexa as only one digital alternative to film (Rodney Charters even said Alexa is a game changer).

Sounds like a big joke especially at the time of its start up

Alexa has a big struggle to "beat" Canon DSLRs in some of upcoming TV productions.

We do not have to be worry because RED1 already has got longer used to that sort of battles.

That's a reason that EPIC has to be perfect as much as possible as a multi format camera at its launch and this takes time to make it you like it or not.

Hope that the most of us can understand this reality and situation.

EPIC would have a double sward effect: to battle and concur Canon HDDSLRs, "1080p League" that led by Alexa , F35 (upgraded), Genesis, etc,...

So happy shooting with R1MX for a while...

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

two rental companies i know have multiple epics and alexas on order.
both didnt buy a codex along the alexa (they will subrent if needed)

their thoughts on alexa and epic:

alexa:
hope:
will be used mostly for TV features, should replace 16mm productions (a lot of tv films here are shot on 16mm, not 35mm...budget dictates this choice)
prores workflow is easy and fast.
no need of a DIT while shooting to ProRes...producers are satisfied
the dp`s who are shooting this tv features are used to arri film cams, so the transition to digital is much easier for them because of alexas formfactor and design.
AC`s love arricams, they will be comfortable with the system (less need to add a gazillion gadgets to make it a cinecam)
assumption...Alexas wont be used that much for cinema movies because of the need of a external recorder...this sucks too much while shooting, like on the D21(a lot of films in germany are shot handheld)..ie they didnt bought a codex

fear:
alexa plain simple sucks....because of possible Bugs, possible lousy algorythm (more software related things)---they are a hardware company, not a software company
ROI could take too long.

the consencus was:
we buy arri because its arri, people will want to have it, but if alexa fails, arri will have a hard time.

epic:
hope:
This will be the main cinema camera...they count on epics beeing used mostly for cinema, for the rest they expect cheaper systems like canons and MX`ed R1s will be used.
price is superb, fast ROI

fear:
how reliable are the modules and how reliable are they connected.
how many gadgets have to be added to make it workable in a cinestyle mode (can it be too much?)

concensus:
epic have to be a cinestyle cam.
that you can take the brain and shoot is a nice addition and erases the need of Canon on Epic sets.


-------------------------
this is not my personal opinion, i am not basing my business on rentals, i am making films, so epic is totally fine for me.
(although i wish the SSD wouldnt stick out of the side)

i have no concerns about the software, guess this area will be handled very good.
The little design things...these are important.
Hope in the Tatoo group are a lot experienced cine-shooters (dps and ACs)
and i hope the majority of tatoo users are not posthouses or rental companies.

(form my experience what is still Ok for someone not working with a camera full time, usually annoys the AC/Dop really bad)
RED should take the time.
design, QC of parts, software...this can take up to 4-5 months possibly.


we are running bets here, that ET will make a second Carbon-skin for the Epic with the connectors arranged in a strictly cine style.
makes it heavier, but thats ok.

 

[PatC]

Mmm epic. They are lovely.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sony F35 Upgrade

Sony F35 Upgrade

Sony F35 Upgrade

"The Sony F35 Camera is being upgraded this summer with selectable EI from 640 to 1000.
Sony also plans real time 12-bit RGB later this year with its next-generation HDCAM-SR recording technology.
That includes real-time 2K (2048×1080). And look for on-board solid state recording and 1 TB memory cards"

LINK>>>

To win "1080p League" battle continues...

 

[Stephen Gentle]

I didn't see this one posted:

http://twitpic.com/1u8r61

Pretty cool stuff!

 

[PatC]

Not the same shoot, but cool none the less. ^

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

two rental companies i know have multiple epics and alexas on order.
both didnt buy a codex along the alexa (they will subrent if needed)

their thoughts on alexa and epic:

alexa:
hope:
will be used mostly for TV features, should replace 16mm productions (a lot of tv films here are shot on 16mm, not 35mm...budget dictates this choice)
prores workflow is easy and fast.
no need of a DIT while shooting to ProRes...producers are satisfied
the dp`s who are shooting this tv features are used to arri film cams, so the transition to digital is much easier for them because of alexas formfactor and design.
AC`s love arricams, they will be comfortable with the system (less need to add a gazillion gadgets to make it a cinecam)
assumption...Alexas wont be used that much for cinema movies because of the need of a external recorder...this sucks too much while shooting, like on the D21(a lot of films in germany are shot handheld)..ie they didnt bought a codex

fear:
alexa plain simple sucks....because of possible Bugs, possible lousy algorythm (more software related things)---they are a hardware company, not a software company
ROI could take too long.

the consencus was:
we buy arri because its arri, people will want to have it, but if alexa fails, arri will have a hard time.

epic:
hope:
This will be the main cinema camera...they count on epics beeing used mostly for cinema, for the rest they expect cheaper systems like canons and MX`ed R1s will be used.
price is superb, fast ROI

fear:
how reliable are the modules and how reliable are they connected.
how many gadgets have to be added to make it workable in a cinestyle mode (can it be too much?)

concensus:
epic have to be a cinestyle cam.
that you can take the brain and shoot is a nice addition and erases the need of Canon on Epic sets.


-------------------------
this is not my personal opinion, i am not basing my business on rentals, i am making films, so epic is totally fine for me.
(although i wish the SSD wouldnt stick out of the side)

i have no concerns about the software, guess this area will be handled very good.
The little design things...these are important.
Hope in the Tatoo group are a lot experienced cine-shooters (dps and ACs)
and i hope the majority of tatoo users are not posthouses or rental companies.

(form my experience what is still Ok for someone not working with a camera full time, usually annoys the AC/Dop really bad)
RED should take the time.
design, QC of parts, software...this can take up to 4-5 months possibly.


we are running bets here, that ET will make a second Carbon-skin for the Epic with the connectors arranged in a strictly cine style.
makes it heavier, but thats ok.

IMHO this evaluation and pov on both camera's is absolutely correct at the given time

 

[Petri Teittinen]

RED does't need to rush just because some people want EPIC desperately today or even early tomorrow. It's a real to wait till early 2011.

Hmm, let's see...

Yup, no need to rush anything. RED, take your time; I believe us Europeans can wait for a while longer.