First Epic shoot...

[Christopher Probst]

Hey folks, looks like I'm going shooting my first job on an Epic this upcoming Monday.

Just curious if there is some beta version of Redcine that I need to be able to transcode the footage. Most of my DITs have systems with Red Rocket cards so I anticipate having that on set.

Anything else out of the norm I need? I know about the SSDs and that currently you can only shoot 5K. I'm fine with that, since I always want as high a resolution and as low of compression as possible.

Currently there appears to be no baseplate built for the camera but we;re trying to fabricate one by the weekend...

Any other pointers or considerations you can point out would be appreciated.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

asfaik there is a beta build of rx for epic footage.
not sure about rocket accel.
Elementtechnica made dino a custom adaptorplate so u can attach it on a 19 mm baseplate without problems.

have fun shooting with it!
edit: and as of today, its lcd or evf.

i am sure the early epic-m owners can give you a much more detailed instruction (and will do it gladly) so you have a great shooting experience with it.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Good luck and have fun Christopher, you can use Build 416, unless a new one pops out this weekend

The bottom and top adaptor plates form ET are cool, we also have both of them, but will unlikely use them for 19mm standard Arri
Bridge plate mount, since we just got the Bad A%$#@% New RED Shoulder Mount rig, with Base Plates and Quick Release system
with bottom Epic Plate

But if you need them either call ET or let me know and I will sale you ours as again now we have the RED system that covers all our needs


Have a Blast on EPIC!!

 

[BigLu]

Love 416 build with the new Epic color science so far so nice.

Would be a pleasure to help you out on that end, let me know if i can be of any assistance with the REDrocket cart and monitors.

Luis

 

[dino g]

there is an ET riser you will need and if you also buy the et hybrid BP it will wirk perfectly with all the lenses and matte box combos, check out my thread from recent jobs to see pictures of configurations that work.

also they need to have the right version of the firmware and drivers for redrocket to work with the epic footage 416er is what i am using, but i believe it is the same as 416, but hopefully one of the redteam can confirm that.

good luck.

dino

 

[Peter Matthes]

The bottom and top adaptor plates form ET are cool, we also have both of them, but will unlikely use them for 19mm standard Arri
Bridge plate mount, since we just got the Bad A%$#@% New RED Shoulder Mount rig, with Base Plates and Quick Release system
with bottom Epic Plate

But if you need them either call ET or let me know and I will sale you ours as again now we have the RED system that covers all our needs

Ketch,

Can the ET hybrid base plate work seamlessly with the Red shoulder mount rig?
I know that a bottom adapter plate is needed to correct hight, but is the ET baseplate interchangeable with the new Red baseplate?

 

[Christopher Probst]

Just got back from Camtec and noticed a few things that presented some stumbling blocks for my normal method of working with Reds... First off, I'm annoyed to discover that the usual Panasonic 17" monitor does not support its waveform display functions on signals at 1080, 23.98. I use the monitor's waveform all of the time and like to toggle between Redcolor and Raw and see where my exposures fall. I'm not sure if it's just disabled right now, but we couldn't find any way to alter the Epic's video out to 720p or 1080, 59.94 which would bring back my built-in waveform functions. My solution is to either go with a larger sized Panasonic which is a little less contrasty and doen't have physical knobs (which I prefer) to adjust brights, chroma and contrast... OR I take out a separate smaller Astro for its waveform.

My next concern is that I believe as its currently set, you cannot veiw false color exposures in raw. Every time I tried to toggle between Raw and Redcolor, it would negate the false color. You can EITHER view false color, or view raw, but currently not both. I hope this changes in later firmware updates.

Is there a tint control on the menues anywhere? I personally detest the auto colortemp feature, and I've seen it on cameras all the time when I pick them up for different jobs? WHO are using this function? I don't like discovering my tint is at -20 on the camera! The prep tech today hit the auto temp on an assignable button and I was like NO!, so I went looking for the tint control to re-zero it out, but couldn't find it.

For my upcoming job, we're still working around building some mounting plates for accessories as well as adapting a base for arri baseplates and rods. Work in progress there. A top plate will allow us to use the older style Red batteries and cradle until Red comes out with the batteries that fit inside the handgrip, or a battery module.

It'd be nice to have the option to have both an on-board monitor as well as an eyepiece function together. As Camtec's camera exists now, there is only one lemo port open to plug in one or the other.

That's all I noticed so far, but other than that, freakin' awesome! Can't wait to see the results of 5K 3:1... Will future updates add 2:1 compression as an option or is that the max?

 

[Brook Willard]

First off, I'm annoyed to discover that the usual Panasonic 17" monitor does not...

Correct, the BT-LH17XX do not support waveform with a 1080/23.98P signal. Changing output resolution is not yet enabled.

Keep in mind that the current output LUT is REDgamma 2, not REDgamma as it was on the R1. Naturally, looking at either and trying to judge exposure from it is a scary premise...!

My next concern is that I believe as its currently set, you cannot veiw false color exposures in raw. Every time I tried to toggle between Raw and Redcolor, it would negate the false color. You can EITHER view false color, or view raw, but currently not both. I hope this changes in later firmware updates.

From what I've seen, those functions are changing rapidly.

Is there a tint control on the menues anywhere?

Tap and hold on the color temperature.

The prep tech today hit the auto temp on an assignable button and I was like NO!

The buttons can be reassigned.

It'd be nice to have the option to have both an on-board monitor as well as an eyepiece function together. As Camtec's camera exists now, there is only one lemo port open to plug in one or the other.

Waiting on the IO module, naturally.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Is blue still being used for the focus mode? I hope this ends up being something the user can adjust. Red worked well for me unlike blue.

 

[Christopher Probst]

Thanks for the reply Brook.

I didn't know the Epic was REDGamma 2, I use several different methods to determine how I want to expose a given scene. A waveform on a "cooked" image is just one part of that, but I have learned to interpret what it gives me very quickly in a crunch. How exactly is REDGamma 2 different?

I didn't know about holding down the colortemp so I'll give that a try tomorrow when I swing by the camera prep.

I definitely reassign the buttons on every job I do, especially when people put that auto color temp on one of them. Drives me bonkers!

Also, maybe it's me, but with the Epic, the sensor seemed a couple of hundred degrees warmer than 5000 as a base color to start from... Perhaps there was still green in my tint setting I couldn't find too...

Cheers!

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

And Chris,

Both Schwartzman and I are finding that we are lighting with our eye and our meters and happy with the exposure. (Brook & Kevin?) When I have a highlight question I use the toouchscreen and check false color and the histogram with Kevin (Stanley, my DIT on 2nd unit)

But you will be pleased.

Enjoy and post your thoughts after your shoot. Bon courage!

Peter
2nd Unit DP
Spiderman

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch,

Can the ET hybrid base plate work seamlessly with the Red shoulder mount rig?
I know that a bottom adapter plate is needed to correct hight, but is the ET baseplate interchangeable with the new Red baseplate?

Since the Clutch comes as a kit with its own Base Bridge Plate with Quick Release Pro, there is really no use to try and place a larger heavier older model Plate on it.

But yes, if you would want to you can interchange them at will even take them apart and interchange the various element from
one plate to the other, and or also take the 19mm RED and replace them with the ET 15mm Studio Clamps, and or take the
actual Hybrid Core and put RED's 19mm Clamps on

 

[Jannard]

Also, maybe it's me, but with the Epic, the sensor seemed a couple of hundred degrees warmer than 5000 as a base color to start from... Perhaps there was still green in my tint setting I couldn't find too...

Cheers!

Make sure you use the newest RCX since it has EPIC color science... the color science is different than R1MX even though the sensors are the same. RCX knows one from the other and doesn't get confused.

Good luck on the shoot.

Jim

 

[Steve Das]

...Can't wait to see the results of 5K 3:1... Will future updates add 2:1 compression as an option or is that the max?

Fortune cookie says...not likely.
Seriously...the problem is what you would record the 2:1 compression to.
Right now 3:1 24 fps to SSD is the limit.

....The biggest budget projects on the planet, with lots of VFX, have seen 3:1 and chosen 5:1. So the chances of you needing even 3:1 are remote past Siberia.

Jim

Just to recap... the camera is capable of 2:5:1 REDCODE RAW (mathematically lossless). The SSD's currently are not fast enough to record 24fps 2.5:1. You can get about 18fps. As soon as SSDs or other recording options can keep up, we will let you know.

Jim

 

[Jannard]

2.5:1 will be enabled when there is media fast enough to record 24fps. We have always said 2.5:1 (mathematically lossless)... never said 2:1.

Jim

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Just to add to what Jim has said about compression. we are shooting Spiderman at 5:1 for 24fps. We obviously shoot up to 6:1 and higher for hi speed work.
We considered 3:1 but are convinced that we would gain nothing. Even with all of our VFX work we don't feel it would benefit us. And we are going to do a full 4K film out in 3D plus IMAX

We were all happy with Redcode 42 and that is a whole heap more compression than Red 5:1.

Just my 2 cents

Peter

 

[Brook Willard]

Couldn't agree more. I've done tons and tons of tests for months on end comparing the different compressions in different situations. As cool as 2.5:1 and 3:1 are... I don't see a real need to go past 5:1. It's an awesome sweet spot.

People will jump to 3:1 or 2.5:1 because it's "the best" and they feel like their work requires or deserves it. I get it, fear not. I just think that when one looks at the whole equation and really tests the camera... they'll find their own sweet spot. And you know what? I'll put money on it not being 3:1.

 

[Jannard]

There is the real world and then their is pixel-peeping-land. If the VFX guys can't tell a difference and you can't see it on a 60' screen, then why does it matter what you see in Photoshop at 1000%? Quite frankly, if you could see a difference at 1000%... I'm not sure you could tell me which was better.

Jim

 

[Mark Toia]

I'm not worried about Pixels at all as MX is way way more than I need already. It's unbeatable!!!
No question there.

But reading this thread it sounds like you cannot have the Bomb evf working at the same time as the 5 inch on top of the camera? without the aid of a module, or bolting an after market monitor onto it going through the sdi out.. is this correct?.

I'm hoping not?

I'm wanting to travel really light with clients or focus puller viewing the 5 inch over our shoulders at the same time I'm using the BOMB evf to shoot with. (for obvious reasons). Like we do now with the RED ones.

We are going to do a 4 to 6 camera (RED EPIC) feature movie traveling the world in nap sacks. We don't want to be dragging along extra monitors or modules. Just the EPIC as is with with spare batteries.

Is there a way around this? Will there be a T piece splitter or something so we can get both viewing options going without the need of buying another module that may not come out for another year?

Is there going to be an option enabled to be able to run both BOMB EVF and 5 inche ouch screen without loading the camera up with extra modules in the future. (fingers crossed)

The only reason we use those crappy 5d cameras is because they are small and light. (they will be thrown in the bin or sold off the moment the EPICs finally turn up.
If we have to throw modules on and aftermarket monitors, that means the EPIC is growing to big again..

As an option Jim (RED) can we pay extra for an extra lemo port so we can run both BOMB and touch screen at the same time. I don't mind paying more for this extra port option at all. I have a bunch of mates that have ordered EPICS as well with the same wish.

We are really focused on keeping these awesome cameras of yours a small as possible.

thanks

 

[Jannard]

I'm not worried about Pixels at all as MX is way way more than I need already. It's unbeatable!!!
No question there.

But reading this thread it sounds like you cannot have the Bomb evf working at the same time as the 5 inch on top of the camera? without the aid of a module, or bolting an after market monitor onto it going through the sdi out.. is this correct?.

I'm hoping not?

I'm wanting to travel really light with clients or focus puller viewing the 5 inch over our shoulders at the same time I'm using the BOMB evf to shoot with. (for obvious reasons). Like we do now with the RED ones.

We are going to do a 4 to 6 camera (RED EPIC) feature movie traveling the world in nap sacks. We don't want to be dragging along extra monitors or modules. Just the EPIC as is with with spare batteries.

Is there a way around this? Will there be a T piece splitter or something so we can get both viewing options going without the need of buying another module that may not come out for another year?

Is there going to be an option enabled to be able to run both BOMB EVF and 5 inche ouch screen without loading the camera up with extra modules in the future. (fingers crossed)

The only reason we use those crappy 5d cameras is because they are small and light. (they will be thrown in the bin or sold off the moment the EPICs finally turn up.
If we have to throw modules on and aftermarket monitors, that means the EPIC is growing to big again..

As an option Jim (RED) can we pay extra for an extra lemo port so we can run both BOMB and touch screen at the same time. I don't mind paying more for this extra port option at all. I have a bunch of mates that have ordered EPICS as well with the same wish.

We are really focused on keeping these awesome cameras of yours a small as possible.

thanks

That is correct. There are a ton of things we all would like... even things no other camera does. But there is only so much you can do in a matchbox. We had one guy come to the studio and say "wow, this is really cool! Any way to make it lighter?" I chuckled. Thought to myself... sure, we could make it a 1080P camera.

Jim