First CP.3 lens for Scarlet-W

[Karel Šimůnek]

Hi guys, I'm going to buy my first cinema lens for my Scarlet-W. My choice is the new Zeiss CP.3 standard lens. If you have money for only one lens (for now) from CP.3's which one would be your choice?
Thanks

 

[Domenic Barbero]

if you have money for one, get a sigma. haha. CP anything sucks. Stay away.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Thanks Domenic. I think about Sigma Cine as well and it would be interesting to see CP.3's vs. Sigma Cine's. I'd like to know if Sigma is still sharp at T1.5

 

[Phil Holland]

if you have money for one, get a sigma. haha. CP anything sucks. Stay away.

Erm.. I'm not so down on the CP.3s as you are Dom, like not even close. The Sigmas are good too in a different direction. And honestly from the CP.3s I've had on my camera (protoype only) I can't fathom how you think those are worse than say your FDs for instance......

For Scarlet-W I'd aim at the 28mm personally, but that's just me. I have a suspicion more are coming too.

A nice 4 lens set would be the 18, 28, 50, and 85mm in my opinion.

 

[Domenic Barbero]

Erm.. I'm not so down on the CP.3s as you are Dom, like not even close. The Sigmas are good too in a different direction. And honestly from the CP.3s I've had on my camera (protoype only) I can't fathom how you think those are worse than say your FDs for instance......

For Scarlet-W I'd aim at the 28mm personally, but that's just me. I have a suspicion more are coming too.

A nice 4 lens set would be the 18, 28, 50, and 85mm in my opinion.

IF the coating is like the cp2's then they will laughed at still. The insanely inconsistent tstop range across focal lengths makes these lenses a joke. No real look, Cold sterile image, lack of charm make the CP line up not worthy. Id take my FD lenses over CP's any day of the week. Character and excitement win out over name any day of the week. I wish they would just kill that line and start making a line from the otus lenses and have a solid product line.

 

[Phil Holland]

IF the coating is like the cp2's then they will laughed at still. The insanely inconsistent tstop range across focal lengths makes these lenses a joke. No real look, Cold sterile image, lack of charm make the CP line up not worthy. Id take my FD lenses over CP's any day of the week. Character and excitement win out over name any day of the week. I wish they would just kill that line and start making a line from the otus lenses and have a solid product line.

They aren't the same coatings as the CP.2......

I do agree about the Otus and I do use them often.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Erm.. I'm not so down on the CP.3s as you are Dom, like not even close. The Sigmas are good too in a different direction. And honestly from the CP.3s I've had on my camera (protoype only) I can't fathom how you think those are worse than say your FDs for instance......

For Scarlet-W I'd aim at the 28mm personally, but that's just me. I have a suspicion more are coming too.

A nice 4 lens set would be the 18, 28, 50, and 85mm in my opinion.

Thank you Phil for your opinion.
And I'm curious which focal lenghts will be super speeds

 

[Dan Isola]

Hey Karel,

One lens or one set of lenses?

Personally, I would probably go with the Otus with Cine-Mod from Duclos or the new Sigma's.

 

[M.Halsell]

We know this: The common burs for the CP's have been inconsistent transmission stops, soft wide open, still lens DNA, sterile-lacking character, inconsistent color matching. But to its pedigree, the lenses are sharp outside of being used wide open, lightweight, decent-to-satisfactory mechanics, good availability, fair pricing, complete set of usable focal range, accurate focus scales, good flare management, variable mounting systems, FF w/exception being the 18mm.

The lens has overall good utility. Work and hold up well in production environments. Industrial and some low-to medium commercial TV productions are good applications for this lens set. But these are not mini UP or MP, so if the intended application is theatrical projection, resolution may be an issue.

 

[Bobby Farokhzad]

Had a chance to play with the CP3s at NAB and I was very impressed. To my eye they look vastly superior to the CP2s in almost every way... very close to the compact zooms in terms of overall look. If you like the clean clinical Zeiss look, these lenses will be a great choice, specially at their price point.

 

[Richard Williams]

I have a set of 6 Zeiss CP.2 and I am very happy with the look, the ability to easily pull focus and the flexibility of an interchangeable mount. I rent mine out so they will pay for themselves - even apart from my own use within 3 years. I find rental a great way to help fund gear that you want - but flexibility is the key. Some may want PL, others EF and E mount is very popular. Having interchangeable mounts means that they are easily rentable. I am sure the CP.3 will have improved on what was already a fine lens for the price of CP.2. As Phil suggested I would start with a 28mm or 35mm so you have a slightly wide to normal angle to start with but not so wide that you can't go close in on faces with noticeable distortion. i personally use 35mm and 85mm the most.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I saw the CP3's at NAB, and the housings, consistent (small) size and shape...were impressive.

Awesome mechanics.

I agree with Phil, start with a 28mm, or a 35mm. Something "normal".

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Guys, thank you very much for your valuable advice

 

[Jim Skinner]

I agree with the 35mm suggestion, I frequently shoot with the 35mm with a Scarlet-W and it produces a great image, which is easy to grade. Colors are a bit cold, but I like having a cold starting point to grade from.

 

[Subrata Sen]

IF the coating is like the cp2's then they will laughed at still. The insanely inconsistent tstop range across focal lengths makes these lenses a joke. No real look, Cold sterile image, lack of charm make the CP line up not worthy. Id take my FD lenses over CP's any day of the week. Character and excitement win out over name any day of the week. I wish they would just kill that line and start making a line from the otus lenses and have a solid product line.

See, this is what Zeiss has to say about Cp.3's:

"
1. Clean and crisp ZEISS look which matches perfectly with other ZEISS cinema lenses
2. Color matching and covering full frame across the full range of focal lengths from 15 to 135 mm
3. Special lens coatings support high-dynamic range projects
"

Colour matching and flare problems have been solved as per their description, due to a redesigned barrel. But I am actually wondering about the "clean and crisp Zeiss look which matches perfectly with other Zeiss cinema lenses" part. What other Zeiss cinema lenses are they referring to? Zeiss Ultra Prime? If they are, I'll be happy to go for these lenses, whenever I can afford.

I normally use a Zeiss Contax cine mod lens and am extremely happy with it. Contax lenses are 2.8 and CP.3 seems to be 2.1, not much of a difference though.

 

[Ben Scott]

Most Zeiss lenses match quite well in broad terms. Older Contax lenses with the older coatings need a bit more tweaking.

 

[Erich Roland]

See, this is what Zeiss has to say about Cp.3's:

"
1. Clean and crisp ZEISS look which matches perfectly with other ZEISS cinema lenses
2. Color matching and covering full frame across the full range of focal lengths from 15 to 135 mm
3. Special lens coatings support high-dynamic range projects
"

Colour matching and flare problems have been solved as per their description, due to a redesigned barrel. But I am actually wondering about the "clean and crisp Zeiss look which matches perfectly with other Zeiss cinema lenses" part. What other Zeiss cinema lenses are they referring to? Zeiss Ultra Prime? If they are, I'll be happy to go for these lenses, whenever I can afford.

I normally use a Zeiss Contax cine mod lens and am extremely happy with it. Contax lenses are 2.8 and CP.3 seems to be 2.1, not much of a difference though.

Agree on most points, but the difference between 2.8 and 2.1 is huge!
Yes most if not all Zeiss products are more "color matched" across product lines. Zeiss is the biggest and you could say "best" cinema lens maker in the world. There are benefits to buying into this Eco system including parts, service centers, replacement rentals. The so called "cold" look of Zeiss is WAY overblown and I believe not a worthy criticism. I'd call it neutral as opposed to warm, which some other brand lenses exhibit which I'd call that a flaw (id guess its harder to make glass completely color neutral). But adding warmth is extremely easily either in camera or in post if you want the images warmer then the scene actually is. Zeiss lenses can be resistant to flare and that's usually a wanted trait in contemporary lenses. Zeiss lens products are extremely well made and robust. I've had to spend probably double on servicing Cooke products over Zeiss lenses from the almost fragile nature of the Cookes. Who's going to service these Tokina's or Sigma's and will they have the parts? What if you need to rent a lens you don't own, like a super wide or long lens, will you be able to find one somewhere?

Production can be tough and you have to pick your battles, what you want to fight and where.... but you cant go wrong with Zeiss lenses in general including re-sale value. Yea I'm not a huge fan of Cp.2 barrel designs (and size) but it looks like they got it right with this new Cp.3. Buy a Zeiss lens and put your energy into what and how you shoot knowing your lens will be there ready to work faithfully (color) and with accuracy. These are good things, you can depend on these lenses. The chances of a Zeiss product being ready to work when you are is very high, id say higher then just about any other lens maker, period.

When you have a special project that "Vintage" makes sense, then rent something vintage. Id hate to be strapped with a vintage lens every day for all types of work.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Thank you all for your advice. I ordered 28mm CP.3. I've seen beautiful images shot with CP.2's so I guess CP.3's are going to be very good choice

 

[Subrata Sen]

Agree on most points, but the difference between 2.8 and 2.1 is huge!
Yes most if not all Zeiss products are more "color matched" across product lines. Zeiss is the biggest and you could say "best" cinema lens maker in the world. There are benefits to buying into this Eco system including parts, service centers, replacement rentals. The so called "cold" look of Zeiss is WAY overblown and I believe not a worthy criticism. I'd call it neutral as opposed to warm, which some other brand lenses exhibit which I'd call that a flaw (id guess its harder to make glass completely color neutral). But adding warmth is extremely easily either in camera or in post if you want the images warmer then the scene actually is. Zeiss lenses can be resistant to flare and that's usually a wanted trait in contemporary lenses. Zeiss lens products are extremely well made and robust. I've had to spend probably double on servicing Cooke products over Zeiss lenses from the almost fragile nature of the Cookes. Who's going to service these Tokina's or Sigma's and will they have the parts? What if you need to rent a lens you don't own, like a super wide or long lens, will you be able to find one somewhere?

Production can be tough and you have to pick your battles, what you want to fight and where.... but you cant go wrong with Zeiss lenses in general including re-sale value. Yea I'm not a huge fan of Cp.2 barrel designs (and size) but it looks like they got it right with this new Cp.3. Buy a Zeiss lens and put your energy into what and how you shoot knowing your lens will be there ready to work faithfully (color) and with accuracy. These are good things, you can depend on these lenses. The chances of a Zeiss product being ready to work when you are is very high, id say higher then just about any other lens maker, period.

When you have a special project that "Vintage" makes sense, then rent something vintage. Id hate to be strapped with a vintage lens every day for all types of work.

Lovely analysis. I was never a fan of CP.2 just because of the size of the lenses. I went for Contax to avoid the bulk of the CP.2s. The CP.3 design ticks all boxes for me and in all probability I would be having a set by this year.

Meanwhile, I am also looking at Leica R Summicron lenses, duly cine modded. What's your opinion on the Leica lenses?

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

I ordered 25 and 85 for the start