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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First buyable 8K TV !

Jacek Zakowicz said:
Talk is cheap. Go and create 8K content if you think it will be popular in two years ;-) Oh wait- there is not a camera that can do that. And the upcoming one will be maybe here by next NAB. But wait- still no editing programs to deal with the content. Oh wait- still no computers that can deal with 33mpix frames at 24,30, 60 per second. Oh wait- no 8K display systems (projectors for movie theaters) that can show it. Oh wait- no DC standards that define the quality. etc, etc, etc, Again- talk is cheap hahahaha ;-)
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Just for clarity's sake and to be the contrarian to this POV.

8K works in at least two modern NLEs. RED's Weapon 8K Dragon will be out this year, at least all signs point to that happening as Weapon is delivering on time. There's also 3 other 8K solutions you can shoot with "now", though not as sexy and compact as Weapon 8K. Quantel's Rio showed off a mega system in June 2015 that can handle uncompressed 8K playback for edit and post. I can work on 8K plus material here at the hut, it's actually what I'm doing right now. 8K reference displays have been announced and have been demonstrated, though aren't out yet. There have been DCI and UHD standards developed for 8K, they are what you'd expect if you are finishing for 4K today. You are correct there are no 8K projectors as of yet, however, there are synced projectors that can handle 8K.

It's happening, just like 4K really. I think we can find similar quotes like above somewhere around 2005-2009.
 
Jacek is speaking in general terms. One man bands and small shops can adapt new technology generally faster than the big boys because it's a bit more complicated for big facilities to change on a dime and change everything over to a new standard. In the case of 8K, I agreee with Jacek that you won't see editors cutting 8K or VFX people rendering 8K for a while.
look how long it took 4k to finally show up.
I welcome it but I think Jacek is looking at reality of it. Saying you can cut an 8K timelapse does not mean the rest of the industry is moving towards 8 K editorial.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Jacek is speaking in general terms. One man bands and small shops can adapt new technology generally faster than the big boys because it's a bit more complicated for big facilities to change on a dime and change everything over to a new standard. In the case of 8K, I agreee with Jacek that you won't see editors cutting 8K or VFX people rendering 8K for a while.
look how long it took 4k to finally show up.
I welcome it but I think Jacek is looking at reality of it. Saying you can cut an 8K timelapse does not mean the rest of the industry is moving towards 8 K editorial.
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The true question is with modern production pipelines do we actually need 4K or 8K editorial for a 4K or 8K finish, because we sort of don't :)

VFX has a bit of time before they have to truly worry about 8K for the masses for sure though. Some however are already "on that front" and one two of those are "big boys".

Anyways, this is a cool 8K TV and will be the first available platform to showcase 8K UHD content. Looking forward to more of it popping up.
 
Phil Holland said:
It's happening, just like 4K really. I think we can find similar quotes like above somewhere around 2005-2009.
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Yes, and we are into the next decade -it's 2015 hahaha I rest my case ;-)
Thank you very much!!!
 
Phil Holland said:
The true question is with modern production pipelines do we actually need 4K or 8K editorial for a 4K or 8K finish, because we sort of don't :)

VFX has a bit of time before they have to truly worry about 8K for the masses for sure though. Some however are already "on that front" and one two of those are "big boys".

Anyways, this is a cool 8K TV and will be the first available platform to showcase 8K UHD content. Looking forward to more of it popping up.
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i've never felt a need to edit in 4k. But i grew up in offline/online editing world.

That's good to hear that some VFX houses are preparing to work at those resolutions.
 
8K is diminishing returns. No one seem to focus on customer demand. I would like to see you try and sell 8K over 4K to a customer buying a television. Why would they care about 8K? Please, round up the arguments you would say to a person trying to figure out why they should get an 8K television over a 4K television based purely on resolution.

Without customer demand it's not going to happen. HDR is another beast, it's showable as a feature to customers, they will understand 4K and HDR, not why they should have 8K over 4K.
You may bring forth the argument of distance to screen and size of screen but there will be no screen in any regular home that would justify 8K on normal viewing distances. I can sit 2-3 meters from my projector screen that is sized at 120 inches and when I watch a regular 1080p bluray I have a hard time seeing individual pixels if it's not shot with super sharp lenses and on a totally still shot. With 4K, even with my oversized image and at a close range I'm not gonna se individual pixels at all. Then there's the bandwidth issue, how will content delivery of 8K be justified? It will take up a lot of the internet traffic bandwidth globally if everyone watches 8K.

When will 8K be in everyone's home and 4K be something of the past? Those TV-sets that still remain un-bought at retailers? It's not just about being able to sell a TV for a certain price with a special resolution. Everything, the entire global media workflow and content delivery together with internet bandwidth needs to be replaced by something that could handle it. Even the issue of big data and content storage will be extreme when everything gets 8K.

I don't think people are rational at all about 8K. There's very little down to earth opinions on the future of resolution. Realistically I think that 8K will be in everyones home maybe 2030, but we don't even know what technology is around then.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Yes, and we are into the next decade -it's 2015 hahaha I rest my case ;-)
Thank you very much!!!
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Correct, and that was/is mass adoption. And I do understand that's the point you're making, but there's markets that pay who are interested in things like 8K and VR (which for some is well beyond 8K). However, there are some of us who have been working in 4K longer than that which led to the accelerated slope of adoption that is occurring today. Consumer mass adoption mainly occurs when two things happen. Content becomes available and the hardware use to experience the content becomes affordable.

This is how this works.

I mean, I still remember watching putting greens on the first 1080p TVs when there truly wasn't any other content around. Now how hard is it to find 1080p content? And 4K content is happening more and more. It's just a slope.
 
This TV has nothing to do with economics, market, content, etc..
This is a Sharpublicity stunt- pure and simple. They did not make it because there is any need or demand . They made it because they can.
This TV put them on first page of Google news today- it's the FIRST 8K TV, it's the most expensive TV today. Tomorrow it's going to be forgotten and irrelevant. End of story...
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
This TV has nothing to do with economics, market, content, etc..
This is a Sharpublicity stunt- pure and simple. They did not make it because there is any need or demand . They made it because they can.
This TV put them on first page of Google news today- it's the FIRST 8K TV, it's the most expensive TV today. Tomorrow it's going to be forgotten and irrelevant. End of story...
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No, it's because Japan is starting 8K broadcast next year.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Have you seen any 4K content lately?...- yeah I thought so.
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Sorry to disappoint - but 4K will be available on all cable platforms that deliver via iP by spring. I kinda know because I have a channel launching in 4K on several of them, we're doing the technical testing right now.

The HD version of the channel launches on the first cable provider next week, and then rolls out to 30 million homes in Canada, U.S. & Latin America over the winter - the 4K version is loaded with content at the same time as the testing continues.

There will be hiccups, and many consumers will stay away because they don't want to buy a new set. But eventually set manufacturers will only offer 4K product and the switch will happen quickly.
 
Exactly my point- thank you.
This is almost a decade after 4K camera. And there may be an IP based 4K channel by next spring. OK.......
Congrats by the way on your achievement- that is no small feat ;-)))))
 
Christoffer Glans said:
8K is diminishing returns. No one seem to focus on customer demand. I would like to see you try and sell 8K over 4K to a customer buying a television. Why would they care about 8K? Please, round up the arguments you would say to a person trying to figure out why they should get an 8K television over a 4K television based purely on resolution.

Without customer demand it's not going to happen. HDR is another beast, it's showable as a feature to customers, they will understand 4K and HDR, not why they should have 8K over 4K.
You may bring forth the argument of distance to screen and size of screen but there will be no screen in any regular home that would justify 8K on normal viewing distances. I can sit 2-3 meters from my projector screen that is sized at 120 inches and when I watch a regular 1080p bluray I have a hard time seeing individual pixels if it's not shot with super sharp lenses and on a totally still shot. With 4K, even with my oversized image and at a close range I'm not gonna se individual pixels at all. Then there's the bandwidth issue, how will content delivery of 8K be justified? It will take up a lot of the internet traffic bandwidth globally if everyone watches 8K.

When will 8K be in everyone's home and 4K be something of the past? Those TV-sets that still remain un-bought at retailers? It's not just about being able to sell a TV for a certain price with a special resolution. Everything, the entire global media workflow and content delivery together with internet bandwidth needs to be replaced by something that could handle it. Even the issue of big data and content storage will be extreme when everything gets 8K.

I don't think people are rational at all about 8K. There's very little down to earth opinions on the future of resolution. Realistically I think that 8K will be in everyones home maybe 2030, but we don't even know what technology is around then.
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Christoffer, I do understand your point, but I don't agree with.

I will tell you some arguments I could say to promote 8K :

1) Full Ultra HD is what we can consider the Ultimate Resolution for no-VR viewing experience. Why ? ARRI Schema again. At the closest "relevant" viewing distance, you max out your vision. You can have a very large angle of vision for immersion, and you will still max out your vision. And no need to bring the problem with motion imagery, because between some counter-arguments, I can bring you the fact that Cinema is not stuck in a 24 fps universe. Moreover, a lot of consumer watch their TV in 120hz ;). On a 85" TV, I can sit at 1m and max out my vision. At 4K, I cannot. (This is not mainstream TV size, I know that...) Argument #1 : Better immersion

2) Futur-proofing. People KNOW there will be Full Ultra HD, because it was stantardized at the same time as UHD. People are investment shy. They will eventually wait for Full Ultra HD. Argument #2 : Better investment

Christoffer, see for yourself ! Go to NAB 2016 and go watch 8K TV. It's like seeing out of the window ! Better than speaking a thousand words ! :-)

Considering the bandwith and the storage needed...Technology is evolving. ALL technology. 20 TB hard drives will come, 8K optical disc will come, 10 gbps connexions will come...Decades ago, a 10 GB HD was HUGE. You have to see things globally.

Yes, I do consider consumer demand : Install a 85" 8K HDR OLED TV with a 8K 60 FPS footage in a expo. Watch people being hypnotised.

:-)
 
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Jacek Zakowicz said:
Exactly my point- thank you.
This is almost a decade after 4K camera. And there may be an IP based 4K channel by next spring. OK.......
Congrats by the way on your achievement- that is no small feat ;-)))))
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This is more than a decade after the first 8K camera... : 2003, first 8K camera prototype, by NHK.

;-)
 
jake blackstone said:
Are we still talking about the resolution?
HDR, yes, more resolution, who cares...
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This is not exactly a post on the relevance of 8K, or if 8K is better than HDR or anything...(Even if we must speak about that to argue on the subject of the post). It's a post more about the life of 4K.

Some people (myself included) think that 4K is the 720p of the UHD era, and thus it will not be a major standard like 1080p. Other people think that 8K is very far away.

That's all.

:-)
 
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Milano Questa said:
2 years. Looks like 4K will be nothing more than a stepping stone to 8K.
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That's all 4K is and ever was.... Just as 8K is another stepping stone moving onwards. Resolution is something that will continue to increase and at a faster rate now that the tech to make smaller pixels is both readily available and rapidly advancing. In a way, the resolution is somewhat irrelevant. As we progress beyond 4K, additional resolution becomes more application specific as opposed to further increasing the quality in truly meaningful ways. Or at least that will be the case until we can start mapping photon spin and vectoring, ultimately generating volumetric imagery or deriving light field data from mono-ocular camera systems. Then resolution becomes increasingly important again. And exponentially so. On the other hand, 4K is still too few pixels for many common applications we have today. It's not high enough for seemingly pixel-free imagery on desktop displays > than about 22~24" when used at nominal viewing distances. 8K is a much better match for large 65" to 85" displays and touch interfaces used at arms length or in common work and presentation environments. People are often quick to denounce 4K, and especially 8K. But deep down I don't think most of you truly feel that way... If you did, you wouldn't be a member of this community.

4K is indeed the 720p of the UHD era. It was a huge milestone in digital cinema because the resolving power of analog film under ideal circumstances equates to about 4K when we're talking aperture sizes of Academy 35 ~ S35. But the ATSC and other international governing bodies for broadcast have already decided on 8K (or 16X HD or 7680 pixels wide) as the next major broadcast standard. This has been in the works for years. Since before RED announced the RED One. 2020 set as the target launch year. ...I'm not so sure the transition is going to happen on time. 4K is proving quite difficult from the perspective of distribution and bandwidth. Data infrastructure has not evolved as fast as many predicted. In fact, it's de-evolving in most areas of the world because the number of new users and consumption per user continuously outpaces the technology and scheduled growth.
 
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None of this talk of 8K will really matter to most of the US and for that matter to most of the rest of the world until the bandwidth available to the home is a couple of orders of magnitude better than it is now. My internet provider says I have 30 Megabit download speed (the fastest available to my address) and yet I can't reliably stream HD from Amazon. 8K? Not until the infrastructure is completely rebuilt.

I think it will be a long time before 8K is anything more than a manufacturer's showpiece in most parts of the world.
 
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