First alexa shoot tomorrow

[David (dudi) Namir]

Let us know how it went.

Went very well as far as shooting on the set.
We are still recording on the AJA KiPro, don't know why but the rental house didn't get the firmware update.
Camera was very simple and easy to handle. Good user interface. Camera not so heavy as I was told. Well, Arri always knew how to make cameras, though they didn't controlled the image with there film cameras, film was made by Kodak, Fuji and Agfa and their optics was Zeiss.
Image looks very pleasant on monitor but we have to remember we were recording on 422.
Now everyone here wants to shot on the Alexa in a few weeks everyone will realize the differences between the Alexa and the Red M-X are not important as the storytelling.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hi Gunleik.

True RAW is just data, though these were not raw they were shot into QT prores.

The purpose of these stills was, and still is, to see how and how much detail got carried from the sensor through to compression using Log-C after pushing highlights and shadows. Not how good looking an image I can extract from the shots we took. As this could easily have been achieved by using well lit and graded shots or PS.

But I think I didn't explain this clearly enough in my first post.

Kanguage... -

I think I understand perfectly well what you did, and I have done some of the same... -

But people attacking the Alexa logC images for looking "bad" don't really get what they're about, if they are attacking that they are "unfinnished".

And I applaud RED for comming out with the REDlogFilm gamma. It is in many ways similar to the logC, there is definitely a need for those kind if approaches for quite a few productions.

So in short: It looks like people gave you and your jpg's a beating for all the wrong reasons.

-

And that's why I am trying to complete a test, rather than posting some screendumps out of context... -

 

[Kim Frank]

I cleaned up this thread and removed all the personal attacks and those posts referring to it, plus those posts void of content. Any further personal attacks or fud will result in a free temporary posting holiday, a.k.a. ban.

I don't want to hijack this thread and I really like these discussions guys but I don't get why an ALEXA thread is allowed even if it has nothing to do with RED and threads about other cameras get closed/deleted/moved. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this thread, I dislike the ALL RED censorship
and feel that it made this forum kind of a one way track, but if there are rules, I think they should be followed even if the developer is called ARRI.

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

I don't want to hijack this thread and I really like these discussions guys but I don't get why an ALEXA thread is allowed even if it has nothing to do with RED and threads about other cameras get closed/deleted/moved. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this thread, I dislike the ALL RED censorship
and feel that it made this forum kind of a one way track, but if there are rules, I think they should be followed even if the developer is called ARRI.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing at times...

 

[Nir Shelter]

Thanks Gunleik I knew you would get it.

If there is such a rule as: posts regarding cameras not by Red, not allowed on Reduser, I sincerely apologize.
I have discussed many other cameras and formats here over time and have never heard of it being wrong.

Either way my intentions were simply to share with other like minded people a few un perfect and un scientific findings of mine. Clearly this has gone miss understood by many a mistake I probably wont make again any time soon.

After a grade and hopefully agency/DP approval I will be able to post a few grabs from the scenes under their actual lighting conditions designed by the DP. If anything to dispel any doubts regarding the quality of the images from a professionalism point of view.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Either way my intentions were simply to share with other like minded people a few un perfect and un scientific findings of mine.

I think there are a lot of folks here who understand and appreciate this. Myself included.

Clearly this has gone miss understood by many a mistake I probably wont make again any time soon.

Please don't be discouraged by people who misunderstand things like this. It happens all the time and it has happened with RED footage also numerous times.

 

[Martin Weiss]

If there is such a rule as: posts regarding cameras not by Red, not allowed on Reduser, I sincerely apologize.
I have discussed many other cameras and formats here over time and have never heard of it being wrong.

As long as the discussion is civil and informative, and somewhat of interest to the typical reduser, it is very welcomed. We only had to tighten the policy when people started getting emotional, personal or outright ridiculous. Discussions about different camera types have - unfortunately - led to some rather nasty posts in the past, thus we moderators tend to be extra-careful when it comes to these types of threads.

 

[MichaelHalsell]

Thank you Martin for that clarity. The statement helps reduce the trepidation of posting about camera's other RED.

 

[David Birdy]

I cleaned up this thread and removed all the personal attacks and those posts referring to it, plus those posts void of content. Any further personal attacks or fud will result in a free temporary posting holiday, a.k.a. ban.

I'd love to see an "out take" thread one day...

 

[M Most]

And I applaud RED for comming out with the REDlogFilm gamma. It is in many ways similar to the logC, there is definitely a need for those kind if approaches for quite a few productions.

So do I, but a proper print density conversion involves more than just gamma. Arri has long had color matrices that yield film friendly color pallettes with proper saturation for use with standard print preview LUTs in Di systems. Red color science is based almost exclusively on electronic displays, which is one reason that Red originated productions pushed through film centric pipelines have always suffered compared with those that have been put through a digital cinema centric pipeline and converted to Cineon representations for film recording through use of an inverse LUT. Those of us who have done DI work from both Red and ArriRAW originated material (ArriRAW has been available on the D21 for a few years now, although it hasn't been widely used) have seen and felt the difference, and it is considerable.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Yes M.

But it is a good start, and I am really happy to see it.

 

[Bill Anderson]

I find this all very baffling. I have carefully viewed the entire thread over and over and, considering the posters qualifying remarks about the posted imagery, remarks such as "rough", "unscientific" "others will post better grabs soon" "Jpegs have not been correctly converted", "it should really look something like this [ but even this] " has not been optimally converted" "these are in no way a representative of the look the shots will gain once processed and graded correctly"
I can see no reason for these images being posted. I'm sure I'm one of the "unfinished" or less "intelligent reader" readers, so I would like all the others who claim to "get it", explain just what they are seeing in these images. Or what they are able to extrapolate from them. Now, I've done a fair bit reading between the lines in my time, but I'm having difficulty in seeing how this post supports any claim about the Alexa's overall superiority, or superiority under certain conditions, or the vague claims made here. RED has at times posted less than perfect imagery to show a feature, and even if this was misunderstood by some, the imagery was always illustrative of the feature in question i.e. ISO noise, DR...

Gunleik - Hrvoje: what are these images "really about"?

Apart from the posters, how about a comment or two from Graeme, D Mullen, Jim ...

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I will "really talk" when my tests are done, and I can release RAW images from RED and off-cam files from the Alexa. That is not done yet, and will take another week. I am not implying the superiority or anything else about either cam.

Sorry if that's not what you wanted.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Gunleik, I've always held you posts in the highest regard, I'm just trying to understand this thread. Anyway, I am sincerely looking forward to your tests and insights.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

At the end of the story the treads like this should be probably opened at the web address you can find below but not here at the RED User:

http://www.arridigital.com/forum/index.php

And only if you want to compare RED with any XXX camera system should be somehow allowed and appropriate tread here.

All other things like a sort of this tread are seriously bad provocations or even bad jokes and simply RED anti-propaganda...

Do we ned it?

I think we obviously don't!

Also I'm not sure that Arri would like to discuss another cameras on their forum either.

Everything has its own time and place.

 

[Nir Shelter]

I find this all very baffling. I have carefully viewed the entire thread over and over and, considering the posters qualifying remarks about the posted imagery, remarks such as "rough", "unscientific" "others will post better grabs soon" "Jpegs have not been correctly converted", "it should really look something like this [ but even this] " has not been optimally converted" "these are in no way a representative of the look the shots will gain once processed and graded correctly"
I can see no reason for these images being posted. I'm sure I'm one of the "unfinished" or less "intelligent reader" readers, so I would like all the others who claim to "get it", explain just what they are seeing in these images. Or what they are able to extrapolate from them. Now, I've done a fair bit reading between the lines in my time, but I'm having difficulty in seeing how this post supports any claim about the Alexa's overall superiority, or superiority under certain conditions, or the vague claims made here. RED has at times posted less than perfect imagery to show a feature, and even if this was misunderstood by some, the imagery was always illustrative of the feature in question i.e. ISO noise, DR...

Gunleik - Hrvoje: what are these images "really about"?

Apart from the posters, how about a comment or two from Graeme, D Mullen, Jim ...

If this is the case you clearly missed this part of my post:

"The purpose of these stills was, and still is, to see how and how much detail got carried from the sensor through to compression using Log-C after pushing highlights and shadows. Not how good looking an image I can extract from the shots we took. As this could easily have been achieved by using well lit and graded shots or PS."

I simply tried to let others in the community who have not yet played with an Alexa see how much detail the combination of the Alexa sensor and Log-C have to offer. With out any major manipulations orientated at glorifying the image.

Sanjin I am not sure how you find this anti Red propaganda or to that matter provocative/bad joke in any way, unless you specifically choose to.
Especially after the following comments I posted:
"I like Red a lot, as far as I am concerned Red 1 is the biggest game changer in digital cinematography so far."

At no given point did I attempt to prove superiority of any camera or format. Simply share a few interesting stills with fellow digital cinema enthusiasts. I did as I always do posted objective and informative comments (your welcome to look through my posting history I defy you to prove other wise) for the greater good.

Please stop looking for the negative if you do not appreciate or understand this thread, there are many others for you to read.

 

[Ido Karilla]

Hi all Alexa post experienced,

I have just started to get tests shots from the Alexa.

First there where files recorded on the AJA KI at prores 422.
Today I got some files recorded on camera as prores 422 and prores 4444 (rec. 709 and LogC ).

All the obvious was stated on those clips.

Never the less I noticed an uncanny weirdness in the motion of objects (mostly exemplified on white background).

The only analogy that comes to me is wrong placed fields but on a very low scale in degree.

1. Does anyone noticed anything weird with motion?
2. Anyone familiar with the camere can point maybe to a an operator error that might cause this?

I am sure that my description is vague?

I will try and get permission to upload some examples.

Thanks.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

The description rings a bell....

 

[Bill Anderson]

Nir, I missed nothing in your post.
I did not say that you (or Gunleik) were aiming to suggest that one camera was superior, I already know that answer (as far as my needs are concerned). But let me clarify, let me reword my previous statement for you: given the claims that are being circulated about the Alexa's superiority/quality and so on (even the MX's or Epic's for that matter) this posted imagery does absolutely nothing to help support those claims, whether it is your intention to support them or not. Get it? This (compressed) imagery is so bafflingly bad that it is meaningless- and even fails to shed light on your "resolution" based test. No one is mistaking these images for attempts at art, or as failed aesthetics, or as anything else beyond what they are, how could anyone be that naive, and how could you begin to think that this is the basis of our queries, or our so called misunderstanding? Please, take a good look at what is going on around you, and reconsider the worth of these images. Or better yet, explain what you see in them; Gunliek wouldn't, after all this, he's going to wait until he can post his own results. Under the circumstances, I think that is a very wise decision. Again, I am looking forward to what he has to reveal about the pros and cons of Alexa.

 

[Bill Anderson]

And don't forget, you are the ones with the camera, the onus is on you to explain just what is going on with your examples. If they look like hell, then please explain why they look like hell and what we are supposed to get out of them. Fill in the blanks. Give us something to work with. We don't need to know that you know they look like hell, we need to know what you are seeing. We need to understand what it is that you are privy to, and why that info eludes us. Otherwise we are going to bitch and sound unreasonable.