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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Finding a market

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Luke Kokinos

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So I want to do this stuff for a living. I'm a young guy, haven't attended college yet, and I hope to go into steadicam operation. I own a cheap ($900) steadicam rig which I fly my R1 on. I'm not a master, matter of fact, some of my shots are pretty weak. I enjoy it though, and I continue to improve, so I have hope for myself. I have recently finished my first feature length project, but it's not realistic to expect I'll earn a living, or hardly anything, as a director.

I plan to attend college next fall, not sure where yet, and major in film. My question for all you experienced, intelligent people is what should I do between now and graduating from college to prepare myself for the industry? Obviously expand my reel, my experiences on set, make connections. But how do I find a market for this sort of thing? In Madison, everyone expects free labor/equipment, and it's hard to charge a decent rate for my work and gear, so I don't have a ton of experience from a professional standpoint. So if you have any advice, about anything really, for me, it would be very appreciated. Like any young person, I have endless anxiety about my future, and some guidance would go a long way.

Thanks in advance!
 
I'd start by dropping out of college and buying some decent steadicams and lenses.. college is a set up for the cost to value, you can live in that same town, make the same network, get wasted at the same parties, and save it all for gear. the problem you have now is the same problem you will have after school, real world experience. they will make you do some internships, choose wisely. to get in camera dept id start by trying to be a camera PA for other people and make your way up to AC then steadicam specialty. or focus on that one skill set and make a banging reel, like amazing shots. you don't need a degree to steadicam, just buy the nice one and learn it... maybe a brand name degree helps a bit but it costs way too much in this country, I'm about to do a MFA abroad at a top world school if anything and it will be super cheap
 
No bullshit honest answer -

Step one, move.

Step two, do not go to film school. Giant waste of money. Move to NYC, NOLA, Atlanta, DC, any place with a lot of production, start working on sets. Start as a PA if you have to. If you put 4 years in working on set, figuring out what you want to do, and meeting good people, you will be so far ahead of anyone going to film school. The only exception I can throw at that is AFI. Go there and it will be worth the trouble. Maybe. At least you will meet people. The thing to remember is that this is a long game. 10 years in is a kid. After about 10 years you will realize how dumb you were and start really learning good shit.

Good luck. kick it's ass ;-)

Nick
 
If steady cam is what you want then skip school, take the school money buy the best steady cam rig you can find, equipment make a big difference. But I think today its important to do more than just steady cam, even though that is a really good base. start with that and evolve into steady shots... wire cams, gimbals and all the rest that field is getting bigger and it for sure is and will be even more it´s own profession. And yes move to a place where the service is requested. I´m not so familiar with the us market but I heard Atlanta has been kicking for a while with all their tax incentives. So again instead of getting a student apartment close to a school move to a good production area and work on your skills build a web page and go from there.

And you right directing is a tuff task, any one can become a director, it makes competition quite rough and it´s hard to stand out in that large crowd, so I think much better to focus on something that demands practice and expansive gear to get right.

The good thing with steady cams is that it does not evolve so fast so a good sled will be a good sled for quite some time forward. The gimbals and wire cams etc will evolve very quickly and last just about a year before there is something better for less cost. A good sled can also be rented out to Operators and make some money on it´s own, a 900USD sled can not do that.
 
College is very useful for other reasons, and something you may want to have in your pocket later in life. I wish I had majored in business rather than film, and I have a great career working as a DP. But it is true you don't need to go to school to work in film. But attending college is a privilege you should think hard about throwing away. My 2 cents.
 
If you have a natural passion for what you do and a bit of talent for it you will evolve and prosper by just being in the right environment.
With right environment I am referring to a geographical location with a lot of like minded people doing what you want to do for living.

There is the following dynamic to the trade in relation to geography:
If you stay where you are, you have to become a jack of all trades to get by, and shoot everything from weddings, short films, to no name bands music videos and so on.
Essentially be a one to two man production company and do everything from production to post production. Most of your clients will be a one shot deal.

If you move to a metropolitan area that has a movie and TV industry, you have to specialize in one thing and get exceptional at it.
Most of your clines will be long term relation ships that produce content on a daily basis.
 
Are you looking to train for a job or build a basis for lifelong learning? I would argue the first is very short sighted because, in your lifetime, you will undoubtedly "change jobs" a dozen times or more. Don't get caught in the trap of 20th century thinking where people stayed in a job or career for their entire lives. It doesn't happen that way anymore.

Are you confident that steady-cams will even be around in 10-20 years? Technology has a way of being disruptive. Even if so, will you be happy doing the same thing your whole life. Sure, you can evolve in a job, but will you have the intellectual basis, the entire context, to expand your capabilities as the universe evolves around you?

College can be expensive, no doubt. But, if you choose carefully, it is not a scam. It presents an opportunity to explore and learn. Most importantly, it can set you up to understand and practice the art of learning; something you will use, and need, for your whole life. Do you want to make movies in your life, or just be a steady-cam operator?

Don't fall into the trap of laziness and instant gratification. Personally, I would agree with those who say NOT to go to film school, but that is a decision you'll have to make, carefully. Go get a liberal arts degree and study art, philosophy, literature; maybe mix in some math and physics. How else will you learn about how light works, how the master painters used it, how story has evolved since Shakespeare and how it might continue to evolve in the future. Sure, you can make movies while you are in college. If you are passionate, nothing will stop you from doing that. But, don't cut yourself short and limit your future. Step back and think about the person you want to be.

Good luck.
 
Okay. So additional camera operation is something I'm definitely interested in doing. As far as dropping the money on a brand steadicam, and moving to a bigger town, I'm assuming a survival job is needed? Work some dead-end job until I've worked on a few sets in the area and have enough income from that?

How do you price yourself as someone who's new to the industry? Clearly, undercutting people is a bad idea, and isn't affective or sustainable, but how do you make sure you aren't charging too much for inferior work? That being in comparison to people like most of you, who have far more experience than someone like me. What's a good way to find shoots going on in a new town and contact the people putting together crews? In Madison, everyone knows everyone, and word gets around quickly, so I don't know how I'd fair in a bigger city with more professional work going on.

You are all being super helpful and I appreciate all the advice so far.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Are you looking to train for a job or build a basis for lifelong learning? I would argue the first is very short sighted because, in your lifetime, you will undoubtedly "change jobs" a dozen times or more. Don't get caught in the trap of 20th century thinking where people stayed in a job or career for their entire lives. It doesn't happen that way anymore.

Are you confident that steady-cams will even be around in 10-20 years? Technology has a way of being disruptive. Even if so, will you be happy doing the same thing your whole life. Sure, you can evolve in a job, but will you have the intellectual basis, the entire context, to expand your capabilities as the universe evolves around you?

College can be expensive, no doubt. But, if you choose carefully, it is not a scam. It presents an opportunity to explore and learn. Most importantly, it can set you up to understand and practice the art of learning; something you will use, and need, for your whole life. Do you want to make movies in your life, or just be a steady-cam operator?

Don't fall into the trap of laziness and instant gratification. Personally, I would agree with those who say NOT to go to film school, but that is a decision you'll have to make, carefully. Go get a liberal arts degree and study art, philosophy, literature; maybe mix in some math and physics. How else will you learn about how light works, how the master painters used it, how story has evolved since Shakespeare and how it might continue to evolve in the future. Sure, you can make movies while you are in college. If you are passionate, nothing will stop you from doing that. But, don't cut yourself short and limit your future. Step back and think about the person you want to be.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
+1 There is so much changing in inertial control of camera's, that what you learn to today my not mean much in three years. My two cents is get a degree in physics.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Are you looking to train for a job or build a basis for lifelong learning? I would argue the first is very short sighted because, in your lifetime, you will undoubtedly "change jobs" a dozen times or more. Don't get caught in the trap of 20th century thinking where people stayed in a job or career for their entire lives. It doesn't happen that way anymore.

Are you confident that steady-cams will even be around in 10-20 years? Technology has a way of being disruptive. Even if so, will you be happy doing the same thing your whole life. Sure, you can evolve in a job, but will you have the intellectual basis, the entire context, to expand your capabilities as the universe evolves around you?

College can be expensive, no doubt. But, if you choose carefully, it is not a scam. It presents an opportunity to explore and learn. Most importantly, it can set you up to understand and practice the art of learning; something you will use, and need, for your whole life. Do you want to make movies in your life, or just be a steady-cam operator?

Don't fall into the trap of laziness and instant gratification. Personally, I would agree with those who say NOT to go to film school, but that is a decision you'll have to make, carefully. Go get a liberal arts degree and study art, philosophy, literature; maybe mix in some math and physics. How else will you learn about how light works, how the master painters used it, how story has evolved since Shakespeare and how it might continue to evolve in the future. Sure, you can make movies while you are in college. If you are passionate, nothing will stop you from doing that. But, don't cut yourself short and limit your future. Step back and think about the person you want to be.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

+1

I attended liberal arts university and majored in Broadcast Communications. Did year abroad in Florence graduated moved to LA and started working in Post Production.

Started in duplication and finished as Colorist.

Started new company with wife after we both left our industries after 20 years.

We're now in the Judgement Enforcement business going on 15 years.

I know people that have become Doctors only to realize its not want they expected…….ouch!

Wise to seek out the end game as much as possible before putting in to much time if possible IMO.

One suggestion I give young kids when asked about college……..take writing classes from great teachers. They'll benefit you across the board.

Good Luck!
 
I would agree with everyone about skipping school unless ifs a full ride scholarship or GI Bill. I personally am going to be attending NYFA next year soley because I have the GI BILL and thats enabling me to move back to LA where my family is and where a lot of people I know in the industry are. If it's coming out of your own pocket to go to school take all of these amazing professionals advice and use your money to get better gear and perfect your skills.

As for pricing yourself - I live in San Antonio where there are way way too many NO Budget productions and not enough paying gigs - if your in it to build a reel and you can afford it find a project that interests you and give your time; if you can't work for minimal or free then your at the mercy of what the budget allows for hiring stedicam operators.

I've noticed on NO budget or extremely small budget films - a way to sell your skills is being able to sell what you bring to the table.

Just my two cents
 
Would it be a bad idea to jump into a huge city like NYC or LA or Chicago without having established working experience and building a resume in a smaller city? Is it harder to make connections in big cities with a more saturated market?
 
Slightly off topic, but is the steadicam flyer worth owning?
 
You can learn to operate a steadicam in your home town. But if you want to learn important things like set etiquette eventually you'll need to work on real productions. I highly recommend college though. Get a degree though in something entertaining like Philosophy or Computer Science or whatever interests you. When you die do you want your Eulogy to read "He made the camera move really smoothly"? Or do you want to be a well rounded human being? College isn't necessary for that but it can help. If you don't go to college at least seek out the things that college offers from mentors and books.
 
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