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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Fincher + Probst = Xenomorph - Mindhunter Camera Dept.

Reuben Evans said:
I wonder if this has more to do with marketing from third party rig manufactures like Zacuto, who has put a lot of emphasis on their "recoil" line that places the camera right over the shoulder.
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I have no idea. I know in some countries that have been used to on shoulder ENG style bodies that come "pre-built" that way, creativity has been limited in regards to rigging because they've had a decade plus of never seeing a cinema style motion picture camera. But for years now I've showed up with balanced RED rigs and it hasn't been an issue because..... I balance the rig.

19mm rods. They make life and rigging easier. Good for fending off rabid wolves if necessary as well. #iFeelLikeDaredevil
 
Reuben Evans said:
I wonder if this has more to do with marketing from third party rig manufactures like Zacuto, who has put a lot of emphasis on their "recoil" line that places the camera right over the shoulder.
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No nothing to do with marketing like Zacuto. I've been shooting handheld with Epic since june 2011.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ort-indie-film&p=780204&viewfull=1#post780204

Then this evoluated to this during some years:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?90105-Shoulder-Rig-Idea&p=1107911&viewfull=1#post1107911


And I'm also looking for a good shoulder module for the Weapon with some interesting electronics built in.

Just saying it doesn't look ballanced.

That's all.

Pat
 
Many of us have fashioned rigs that work well off the shoulder, but what if you're not an owner/op with the time and inclination to do so? What if you want to book several cameras for a multi-cam live shoot where your experienced operators need something they can throw on the shoulder and start rolling?

I'm not saying that a "shell" style back end will bring world peace and eliminate the value of a clever custom rigger for specific setups. Heck, I'm the guy who grew up playing with Legos and takes pride in putting together a slick config for specific situations. I also know, and have had the pleasure of working with, some extraordinarily talented operators who may not also have the skill set (or time) to custom rig - they just want to do what they do so well without reinventing the wheel.

Not every "shell" would have to have every capability, you could leave some spaces empty to reduce cost/power draw. That said, to best serve the wide world of rentals, it would be best is there was a minimum config with industry standard features like XLR ports, wireless connectivity, etc.

In some ways, what I'm suggesting is an OMOD in a shell, rather than just piggybacked on the brain. My goal is better ergonomics, combined with; smart internal cooling pathways and no more cables/boxes hanging off the rig.

Cheers - #19
 
Jarred Land said:
Wireless timecode and wireless audio too. I.e no wires.
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I'd really like to understand in detail how this works. Christopher Probst seems to have a "real-time" way of viewing/completing shots, and I'd love to see the integration of the metadata with David Fincher's thought process. My production approach is just not working efficiently on the audio/timecode/metadata front, which effects me putting together a compelling story. Also getting all these pieces together is almost magical, in that in these photographs it looks easy & transparent, but when I try to do it myself it seems impossible.
 
Phil Holland said:
But for years now I've showed up with balanced RED rigs and it hasn't been an issue because..... I balance the rig.

19mm rods. They make life and rigging easier.
Click to expand...

Camera head's shoulder location is not important just for balance. It also affects the image stability and pan appearance due to imaging plane and its relation to center of panning.

19 mm rods are an overkill in weight and volume with a lot of HH work and fast shooting. 15 mm do just fine and are more commonly the choice for these types of setups. Which is why Amira has 15 mm rod suport.

Also, if a camera head is more to the front, even if balanced, wider weight distribution increases inertia, which can be a positive or a negative factor, depending on the shot and type of shooting.
 
As for the design, I've been consulting on this camera for over a year now in some form or another. I've added my $.02 and those ideas were considered and some incorporated, but Fincher has the final say on the overall criteria needing to be met. Things like, no fucking wires external to the body BUT have wireless focus, video, audio and time code, a permanent 7" side touch-screen (We lobbied for a smaller screen to shave the overall body size down a touch, but he was adamant for the 7" screens... Jarred spearheaded all of the 3rd party components we built into the camera... like the Zaxcoms, Paralinx and RT Motions... Matt Tremblay did an amazing job of designing a form factor around all of these criteria and the Red engineers and techs had to make it all function.

As for the end result, I mentioned online that this camera balances beautifully on the shoulder for hand held. And yes, there WILL be some handheld in Fincher's future. The elongated design of this camera fundamentally changes the way the camera sits on the shoulder. This affects the eyepiece placement and height, as well as how high the camera sits above your head. By having the camera sit over-all lower on your body (eyepiece higher up to the top of the camera due to the scalloped shoulder pad placement) you can clear lower thresholds without having to walk in pseudo-squats... I like it for that.

This camera is just one link in an entire workflow concept that is pretty intricate in its design to simplify and reduce the possibility for error. It takes a lot of effort to pull off this feat of effortlessness but in the end it will be worth it. Stay tuned to this channel for further developments where this came from!
 
It's an amazing accomplishment but it makes perfect sense- especially for a guy like David who seems to have such a clear understanding of the workflow he wants on set. Make everything work, stay minimal, clean, organized, and put the focus on the story and not messing about with equipment (or at least that's my interpretation). Thanks for sharing Chris. This is thread will be a priceless insight to what I think is the most groundbreaking production... ever.
 
Christopher Probst said:
As for the design, I've been consulting on this camera for over a year now in some form or another. I've added my $.02 and those ideas were considered and some incorporated, but Fincher has the final say on the overall criteria needing to be met. Things like, no fucking wires external to the body BUT have wireless focus, video, audio and time code, a permanent 7" side touch-screen (We lobbied for a smaller screen to shave the overall body size down a touch, but he was adamant for the 7" screens... Jarred spearheaded all of the 3rd party components we built into the camera... like the Zaxcoms, Paralinx and RT Motions... Matt Tremblay did an amazing job of designing a form factor around all of these criteria and the Red engineers and techs had to make it all function.

As for the end result, I mentioned online that this camera balances beautifully on the shoulder for hand held. And yes, there WILL be some handheld in Fincher's future. The elongated design of this camera fundamentally changes the way the camera sits on the shoulder. This affects the eyepiece placement and height, as well as how high the camera sits above your head. By having the camera sit over-all lower on your body (eyepiece higher up to the top of the camera due to the scalloped shoulder pad placement) you can clear lower thresholds without having to walk in pseudo-squats... I like it for that.

This camera is just one link in an entire workflow concept that is pretty intricate in its design to simplify and reduce the possibility for error. It takes a lot of effort to pull off this feat of effortlessness but in the end it will be worth it. Stay tuned to this channel for further developments where this came from!
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Great stuff, and exactly what I thought. Would love to get this on my shoulder to try out. It's so close to what I was thinking would be an ideal RED for me.
 
Christopher Probst said:
As for the design, I've been consulting on this camera for over a year now in some form or another. I've added my $.02 and those ideas were considered and some incorporated, but Fincher has the final say on the overall criteria needing to be met. Things like, no fucking wires external to the body BUT have wireless focus, video, audio and time code, a permanent 7" side touch-screen (We lobbied for a smaller screen to shave the overall body size down a touch, but he was adamant for the 7" screens... Jarred spearheaded all of the 3rd party components we built into the camera... like the Zaxcoms, Paralinx and RT Motions... Matt Tremblay did an amazing job of designing a form factor around all of these criteria and the Red engineers and techs had to make it all function.

As for the end result, I mentioned online that this camera balances beautifully on the shoulder for hand held. And yes, there WILL be some handheld in Fincher's future. The elongated design of this camera fundamentally changes the way the camera sits on the shoulder. This affects the eyepiece placement and height, as well as how high the camera sits above your head. By having the camera sit over-all lower on your body (eyepiece higher up to the top of the camera due to the scalloped shoulder pad placement) you can clear lower thresholds without having to walk in pseudo-squats... I like it for that.

This camera is just one link in an entire workflow concept that is pretty intricate in its design to simplify and reduce the possibility for error. It takes a lot of effort to pull off this feat of effortlessness but in the end it will be worth it. Stay tuned to this channel for further developments where this came from!
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Thanks for sharing Chris!! So good!!
 
Christopher Probst said:
And yes, there WILL be some handheld in Fincher's future.
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Nice info, but the thing about Fincher going hand held is huge. He's the least hand-held director I know off so I'm super hyped to see how he utilizes that as a storytelling tool. As well as being super-hyped for Mindhunter!
 
Mark K. said:
Red made an Ursa! Very interesting.
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All jokes aside – RED has made a 6K wireless URSA. Albeit hopefully it works out of the box (I’m on URSA camera 3). But the thought process is interesting and actually does confirm that camera teams do want something that comes out of the bag and is ready to shoot rather than a 1hr setup on a modular system. Personally I would love RED to bring this to market and it does not need to be 6K. 4K is cool but just literally you pull it out the bag and are ready to go - nothing to set up, just plug in a mic and yup you are up and running.
 
Iain Philpott said:
All jokes aside – RED has made a 6K wireless URSA. Albeit hopefully it works out of the box (I’m on URSA camera 3). But the thought process is interesting and actually does confirm that camera teams do want something that comes out of the bag and is ready to shoot rather than a 1hr setup on a modular system. Personally I would love RED to bring this to market and it does not need to be 6K. 4K is cool but just literally you pull it out the bag and are ready to go - nothing to set up, just plug in a mic and yup you are up and running.
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An hour!?;) I've never had a red setup take longer than 15-20min even with an olpf swap and a lot of accessories. But, I agree. I hope they actually make this.
 
Christopher Probst said:
As for the design, I've been consulting on this camera for over a year now in some form or another. I've added my $.02 and those ideas were considered and some incorporated, but Fincher has the final say on the overall criteria needing to be met. Things like, no fucking wires external to the body BUT have wireless focus, video, audio and time code, a permanent 7" side touch-screen (We lobbied for a smaller screen to shave the overall body size down a touch, but he was adamant for the 7" screens... Jarred spearheaded all of the 3rd party components we built into the camera... like the Zaxcoms, Paralinx and RT Motions... Matt Tremblay did an amazing job of designing a form factor around all of these criteria and the Red engineers and techs had to make it all function.

As for the end result, I mentioned online that this camera balances beautifully on the shoulder for hand held. And yes, there WILL be some handheld in Fincher's future. The elongated design of this camera fundamentally changes the way the camera sits on the shoulder. This affects the eyepiece placement and height, as well as how high the camera sits above your head. By having the camera sit over-all lower on your body (eyepiece higher up to the top of the camera due to the scalloped shoulder pad placement) you can clear lower thresholds without having to walk in pseudo-squats... I like it for that.

This camera is just one link in an entire workflow concept that is pretty intricate in its design to simplify and reduce the possibility for error. It takes a lot of effort to pull off this feat of effortlessness but in the end it will be worth it. Stay tuned to this channel for further developments where this came from!
Click to expand...

Extremely cool stuff. Thank You for sharing.

And Ultimate Kudos on the 'Mindhunter' show. I still recall the thrill of reading your '97 'AC' article on 'The Game' with Fincher & Savides {RIP}. It was truly inspirational, and brilliantly captured the creative charge of that pairing, on that film, at that time.

We've come a long way ~ from the Platinums & GIIs Panavsion painted black for Fincher on 'The Game' to...this!

A long way indeed ~ congratulations again Mr Probst; i can't wait to see your work with Fincher.
 
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