Final Cut Pro X Released

[Scott Crawley]

We do not live or work in the future. I consider myself to be futurist, but I haven't lost touch with reality because of it. What is true today is the reality we live in, I cannot base my work on what might happen.
In that way I would like to say that film as we see it will probably be dead in 20 years, there's a lot of technological advancements which points to this... should I stop working with film because of this? No.

No worries. Whatever it is you are cutting on today... If it suits your needs... Keep using it. The existence of a new tool does not dictate a necessity to buy Or use a new tool. If you are currently using FCP >=7 and you would argue that it has been discontinued and you will be unable to get support in the future, then I would give your argument back to you as simply as you offered it: you are not working in the future. Definitely use what is working in the present.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Alexander,
It is not, I can't use this piece of junk in any type of editorial work I do, so I think I'm being quite reasonable.
And multicam and such stuff might not be important to YOU, but you do not speak for every professional now do you?

OK ... this is REALLY it.

You've made good points in this thread, but this is an example of why I "signed off."

I had a list of 5 things. 3 serious issues, and 2 UI complaints.

XML was first in that list of serious issues. You picked number 2.

I prefaced the list by saying, with emphasis, that it was a list of MY issues. That explicitly acknowledges that others have different concerns.

So, you clearly read my post, but you didn't even really try and understand it and reason about your reply to me. You just had to counter my statement somehow. THAT is unreasonable.

So, just stop and think about it. Don't be mad at Apple or the FCP X product. That isn't useful. Your objective evaluation is useful.

Speaking to everyone on this thread (and not to anyone in particular!), please stop character assassinating people who are moderate about FCP X as "fanboys" or people who have genuine issues as "haters." If you don't realize it, that is an "ad hominem" logical fallacy. Even if the consensus is that you are in fact talking to the greatest self admitted Apple/FCP X fanboy in the known universe, or the most vile Apple hater using that as a basis for argument makes your argument logically false.

Just be clear about your concerns. If you've actually used FCP X, talk about how you tried to get it to work for you and how it failed. Talk about what you liked, but how it didn't reach the mark.

There are in fact quality comments like this - many of them negative about FCP X- in this thread, but the entire tone is way way too negative and unthinkingly emotional to be truly useful to people trying to evaluate or learn the product, or a product manager/developer trying to improve the product.

Now, I'm signing off again, and this time I'm going to remember to unsubscribe from the thread.

Again, best wishes and regards to all.

 

[Tim Morten]

To the fanboys: Don't worry -- soon the rest of us will all have moved on to other packages, and you guys can all tell each other how right you are without all these bothersome interruptions!

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Have I said you are full of crap? I question the so called "facts" that some bring forward. Like that Apple offically said they are working with Red for r3d support. The "fanboys" are quoting that, but they don't listen when Red themselves say it isn't true. It distorts what is really correct about this release. Fanboys, whatever camp they are from, complicate discussions because they are too into a certain type of system that they turn and twist reality to make their own arguments right.

I question why we should "wake up", "stop being so negative" and so on. We criticize a product and a company for having screwed up what was a really good program, one of the best on the market.
People invested a lot of money into it and there is no reassurance that it's going to be the best or the "future", that is just fanboys speaking and Apple's marketing.

I can ask the same question back; if people come in here and express their disappointment over FCPX, both spicy comments and professional ones, who are really arguing with who? Aren't the so called fanboys the first ones to criticize these professionals for what they said? I see this everywhere on the net and I'm sick of hearing it. Negativity and criticism doesn't seem ok, but a criticism of the critique is?
And when questioning the reason and facts behind those comments that express love for FCPX and anger at the "whiny" professionals it is the negative professional that is the villain?

Well then, I'm out of this thread and leave it for the fanboys to take over...

 

[Chris Kenny]

We do not live or work in the future.

But we make present decisions based on projections about the future. And immediately switching to Adobe or Avid because the first release of FCP X is missing some features, as some people seem to be suggesting they'll do, might not be a great long-term choice.

In that way I would like to say that film as we see it will probably be dead in 20 years, there's a lot of technological advancements which points to this... should I stop working with film because of this? No.

Film will be dead in a lot less than 20 years, at least if you're talking about mainstream commercial relevance. Does that mean you should stop working with it now? No. Does it mean that if you're opening a post facility, it might not be a great idea to spend a million bucks on a film scanner? Yes, it very well might mean that, depending on what your numbers show about how long it would take to for that purchase to pay off.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Well, there's certainly no lack of passion @reduser.net. #927 replies and nearly 58,000 views. That is one reason to like it here.

 

[Chris Kenny]

If FCPX works for you, yay for you, but it is bizarre to eleveate one's opinion/experience above so many who've placed already squandered faith where it was not returned as promised with no immediate and official explanation. At this point Apple doesn't need proselytizing if they don't want mass exodus, Apple simply needs to communicate.

Saying "It's hilariously premature to jump ship because a product that was released last week isn't ready to be integrated into complex pro workflows yet" is hardly "proselytizing".

I agree that Apple screwed up badly with respect to communication in this instance, but people are freaking out before Apple has even had a realistic chance to fix that. I know on Internet time it feels like this debate has been going on forever, with nothing from Apple but silence. But Apple did actually communicate some information about future features via contact with David Pogue, Studio Daily, etc. There's just no way a more formal response was ever going to take them less than a week or two to put together, and it has been all of six days.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

All will be well if Apple does the following and very soon (I'm already getting the panic calls from facilities who are based around FCP 7):

1. Extend the life of FCP 7 for at least one year. Even if it's only available as a download or additional license purchases. That will calm some fears.
2. Announce plans for the missing features. This should come directly from Apple, not second hand information from journalists and the like.
3. Get APIs, SDKs, etc. out to relevant parties ASAP and apologize for keeping many of them in the dark (I know the apology part won't happen)
4. Treat this part of your business a bit different than the rest. You have a product(s) that cross over between consumer and pro. If that's to continue, you have to meet half way on how you present yourself. Remember that not everyone is in a home studio, editing in their underwear (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you want to keep your Hollywood ties, respect those who make up that market. Don't treat them like a niche, even if they are. Pay attention.
5. If you want to revolutionize, throw a bunch of support into making the transition as easy as possible. I understand it's difficult, perhaps impossible to get old projects into FCPX. Telling everyone to just deal with it is a bit hard to swallow. I know one can argue that they are not telling us that, that they are merely suggesting that we must start from scratch with new projects, but this is a dilemma for many facilities right now. They will need to keep FCP 7 on their systems for a while if they plan to migrate over to FCPX. Ok, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. Just handle it a bit better than you are Apple. Explain yourself, explain that this was not the ideal situation but that you were literally left no choice because there's just absolutely no way to get these projects in. Or, if there is a potential way then by all means let people know you are trying.

It's very easy to come down on Apple right now, but as I've said here and elsewhere on the web, to know if FCPX is a success, we will need to see how this develops over the course of a year. We may know sooner, we may know later than that. But right now, it's too early. Also, not that I want to jump in here as a referee, but some of the tone has got a bit personal. I would encourage us all to respect each other, regardless of what kind of projects we work on, how much experience we have, etc.

 

[Andrew Hollister]

I have it on good authority that Apple is preparing to make a bid to purchase Adobe and Autodesk.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I have it on good authority that Apple is preparing to make a bid to purchase Adobe and Autodesk.

haha great this should knock the rants off FCPX for a few posts good one bud thanks for making me smile

 

[Brad Webb]

I have it on good authority that Apple is preparing to make a bid to purchase Adobe and Autodesk.

Sooo.. Apple is planning on destroying photoshop too?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I have it on good authority that Apple is preparing to make a bid to purchase Adobe and Autodesk.

They could pay cash and still have a hefty balance left!

 

[Eric Santiago]

They could pay cash and still have a hefty balance left!

Well im rooting for Autodesk. Back in the day I was hoping it was Alias|Wavefront but then maybe things would be diff for Maya today.

 

[Scott Crawley]

 

[Eric Santiago]

shhh it might hear you...

 

[Erich Ocean]

Saying "It's hilariously premature to jump ship because a product that was released last week isn't ready to be integrated into complex pro workflows yet" is hardly "proselytizing".

FWIW, people are "jumping ship" because Final Cut Pro 7 was killed last week. Gone. EOL'd. You can't buy it anymore -- no updates, no upgrades, no nothing. And people are "jumping ship" because they've waited YEARS for FCP to get an update, and it didn't happen. It was killed. People put off "jumping ship" until now, to see if Apple upgraded FCP 7. They didn't. Instead, they gave us...

Final Cut Pro X, an entirely new, incompatible, 1.0 quality product -- as all the Apple supporters on this thread have pointed out ad nauseum. And people have looked at this new thing that Apple is selling, and are deciding that what they wanted from Apple was the Final Cut Pro 7 UI and feature set with the new Final Cut Pro X foundation and speed. What they got was the new foundation with, at best, an iMovie Pro UI and feature set.

The people who are "jumping ship" didn't suddenly decide to abandon Apple/FCP. They've already spent a year or two looking at Premiere Pro, looking at the latest Avid Media Composer, and instead of switching then, decided to wait to see how Apple upgraded Final Cut Pro 7. When Apple instead decided to kill it, instead of upgrading it, they went with their preferred backup NLE option.

And another thing: that doesn't make these people "haters". It's no one's job to buy Apple's products if they're not what they need/want. They're not bad people because they wanted Final Cut Pro 8 from Apple, and when they found out it wouldn't be coming -- and worse, that Apple killed FCP7, effective immediately -- they switched to another NLE provider that actually wants to provide a migration path forward. That's not "hate", that's just plain smart.

And finally, enough with the "new, modern codebase" stuff. Photoshop is an ancient codebase, and kicks ass. Mac OS X is based on NextStep, which hails from the mid-90s. So stop bashing 90s software, a lot of it is great. FCPX is not automatically better because the code was written in the last 2-3 years; computers can't tell how old the code is.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

FWIW, people are "jumping ship" because Final Cut Pro 7 was killed last week. Gone. EOL'd. You can't buy it anymore -- no updates, no upgrades, no nothing. And people are "jumping ship" because they've waited YEARS for FCP to get an update, and it didn't happen. It was killed. People put off "jumping ship" until now, to see if Apple upgraded FCP 7. They didn't. Instead, they gave us...

Final Cut Pro X, an entirely new, incompatible, 1.0 quality product -- as all the Apple supporters on this thread have pointed out ad nauseum. And people have looked at this new thing that Apple is selling, and are deciding that what they wanted from Apple was the Final Cut Pro 7 UI and feature set with the new Final Cut Pro X foundation and speed. What they got was the new foundation with, at best, an iMovie Pro UI and feature set.

The people who are "jumping ship" didn't suddenly decide to abandon Apple/FCP. They've already spent a year or two looking at Premiere Pro, looking at the latest Avid Media Composer, and instead of switching then, decided to wait to see how Apple upgraded Final Cut Pro 7. When Apple instead decided to kill it, instead of upgrading it, they went with their preferred backup NLE option.

And another thing: that doesn't make these people "haters". It's no one's job to buy Apple's products if they're not what they need/want. They're not bad people because they wanted Final Cut Pro 8 from Apple, and when they found out it wouldn't be coming -- and worse, that Apple killed, effective FCP7, effective immediately -- they switched to another NLE provider that actually wants to provide a migration path forward. That's not "hate", that's just plain smart.

And finally, enough with the "new, modern codebase" stuff. Photoshop is an ancient codebase, and kicks ass. Mac OS X is based on NextStep, which hails from the mid-90s. So stop bashing 90s software, a lot of it is great. FCPX is not automatically better because the code was written in the last 2-3 years; computers can't tell how old the code is.

I jumped out of this thread, but I like to say I'm totally with you Erich... agree to the last word.

 

[Chris Kenny]

These people didn't suddenly decide to abandon Apple/FCP. They've already spent a year or two looking at Premiere Pro, looking at the latest Avid Media Composer, and decide to wait to see how Apple upgraded Final Cut Pro 7.

And my point here is, if you've waited all the time to see what Apple was going to do, it makes no sense to bail out now because you haven't really seen that yet. I mean, yes, if you hate the interface, sure, leave. Apple isn't going to restore the old FCP interface. Though frankly, anyone who wasn't expecting major interface changes even before the Supermeet demo doesn't understand Apple very well, and I have serious doubts that anyone can actually have an informed opinion about whether the new interface is better or worse when nobody has more than a handful of hours of experience with it yet, and I'm sure most people commenting haven't actually sat down to edit a real project in it.

But a lot of people are claiming they're leaving because of what they're inferring about Apple's motivations, or because of missing workflow features. Those inferences about Apple's motivations are not actually very well grounded, and workflow features are known to be coming.

And finally, enough with the "new, modern codebase" stuff. Photoshop is an ancient codebase, and kicks ass. Mac OS X is based on NextStep, which hails from the mid-90s. So stop bashing 90s software, a lot of it is great. FCPX is not automatically better because the code was written in the last 2-3 years; computers can't tell how old the code is.

Virtually everything everyone was asking Apple for with respect to FCP was difficult or impossible to implement on top of the old codebase.

It's really hilarious. 18 or 24 months ago, the fact that Apple hadn't shipped a rewritten Final Cut Pro yet was used as evidence that Apple didn't care about pro users. Today, the fact that Apple has shipped a rewritten Final Cut Pro is used as evidence that Apple doesn't care about pro users. The "Apple doesn't care about pro users" meme seems remarkably flexible in terms of its supporting evidence....

 

[Scott M]

Saying "It's hilariously premature to jump ship because a product that was released last week isn't ready to be integrated into complex pro workflows yet" is hardly "proselytizing".

It is when you force everyone to ignore everything released up to this point and even go so far as to remove the option altogether in order to rationalize or justify something still being touted as progress, while lacking what made the previous versions relevant to the affected audience. It's not rocket science, you are advocating additional faith in the company that just found time to release an incomplete "next step/reboot" with no explanation or response to what they would be decidedly retarded to not see immediately backlashed if they truly cared about or understood those affected.

If Apple wanted to use the "V 1.0" argument that is being thrown about, then they should not have called it Final Cut Pro [anything], plain and simple. When there is a misunderstanding of communication this big, it is not the receiver's faults, it is that of the sender. Communications 101.

Those then rushing to defend the sender regardless and advocating additional faith while having no means to affect the situation are indeed proselytizing to the slighted. And my initial question remains, why feel compelled to do so? It does not affect you, nor can you provide assistance to those whom the item cannot service, especially on this board where RED has already stated they have not been contacted by Apple or had access to anything to work on their own end to alleviate the issues directly affecting RED editing with FCPX regardless of the other missing features. If it's not arguing for arguing's sake, then what is it I'm failing to see? It's not as though progress in the field of editing will halt if people move on to a product whose manufacturer communicates with them regarding their wants/needs.

 

[Geoff McLeod]

Ok, I'll bite:

FCPX/Apple Apologists/optimists, you are painting targets of frustration on yourselves. What do you feel you are gaining by defending:

• Lack of Core FCP Features
• Lack of Communication from Apple
• Apple programmers?

When at best all that's being defended is the "wait and see" approach which is what everyone is essentially venting against after many years already? You seem to be missing the point and painting that target of further annoyance inexplicably.

The "upgrade/rewrite" DOES NOT DO what a lot of people have been doing, and continue to NEED it to do now. Why defend that with no stake in the outcome? Do you honestly believe that asking people to wait and see some more on Apple's behalf is in either party's best interest?

Now obviously something will happen in the future positive or negative, and whether or not you predict that correctly has no bearing on the scenario now that is actively ignored by those who created the fiasco, while others who DO communicate are offering their services. Better to leave the arguments over future/faith to spirituality vs. productivity, this isn't a rapture we're discussing, but standard operating features. Corporations and products require official communication now here in the present if they truly want to keep people from migrating/jumping ship, whether you have faith that Apple will develop appropriately or not. See RED, when something is not on time or as planned/expected, they are the first to let us know.

If FCPX works for you, yay for you, but it is bizarre to eleveate one's opinion/experience above so many who've placed already squandered faith where it was not returned as promised with no immediate and official explanation. At this point Apple doesn't need proselytizing if they don't want mass exodus, Apple simply needs to communicate.

Well said.