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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro X Released

Are you suggesting that 12-bit 4K 444s contain all the information as a 16-bit 5K R3D? That is in the realm of impossibility, unfortunately, not to mention it is baked in. Isn't that what RED's message is all about - stay RAW till the last? What's the point if we were to get a baked codec? Might as well abandon REDCODE.
 
How they could add shot detection and not EDL export is beyond comprehension. It's all about the bling, I suppose.
 
Paul Nordin said:
>they have absolutely not feasible way to get it to a colorist or proper color correction software?.

Not entirely true, but mostly. a FCPx export render can be ingested into Davinci Resolve and run through scene detector, which will chop it up into clips via EDL for grading.
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As I just said, with dissolves scene detector is pretty useless. But, say you somehow managed to cut your timeline into events, have you tried to grade the timeline with baked in dissolves? It's not pretty...
 
jake blackstone said:
Unless many of those edits are dissolves:-)
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Think back to your tape-to-tape days and remember how you hacked around it then. Agree, if MANY of those edits are dissolves, it would suck.

I'm not saying this is ideal. In fact, I used the word "Last resort option". Let's put it bluntly: IT UTTERLY SUCKS AT THE MOMENT. LIKE A VERSION 1.0 PRODUCT.

But if you HAVE to color FCP X projects, Resolve looks like a good option. Agree?

Max Kaiser said:
Anyhow, Cioni's story (and I hope I'm not screwing this up) was that with 444s you've got just as much information as in the r3ds and that furthermore any pro colorist would ONLY want 444s to color, and not r3ds. This was hard for me to swallow, for sure...

Again, this is really off-topic here and should probably be somewhere else, with someone more knowledgeable than I chirping in...
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Yes, please start a new post. It's an interesting subject.

Subhadip Sen said:
Are you suggesting that 12-bit 4K 444s contain all the information as a 16-bit 5K R3D? That is in the realm of impossibility, unfortunately, not to mention it is baked in. Isn't that what RED's message is all about - stay RAW till the last? What's the point if we were to get a baked codec? Might as well abandon REDCODE.
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Though everyone had better be careful of raising the RED ire - because right now what's kinda being implied is that the Alexa's workflow has it right :)

You know... 'cause what Alexa pretty much does is make a wide-latitude full-quality 12bit ProRes444 file, in camera.

Back to FCP X... it does seem nice for those Ad Agency types who shoot on iPhones, DSLRs and Alexas and who edit on their laptop.

Personally its main use to me would be as a brainstorming tool to just play around with - but the lack of import / export options kinda puts a crimp in even that workflow.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Subhadip Sen said:
Are you suggesting that 12-bit 4K 444s contain all the information as a 16-bit 5K R3D? That is in the realm of impossibility, unfortunately, not to mention it is baked in. Isn't that what RED's message is all about - stay RAW till the last? What's the point if we were to get a baked codec? Might as well abandon REDCODE.
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Okey dokey, this is what I meant - I'm not an expert in this. I wish someone else who was at Reducation, or someone further up the line could comment, I'm just telling you what we were taught - AT RED. Perhaps what was meant was that you wouldn't be really using that information anyway, but I cannot answer this. I was in a room with about 30-40 other people and I kept raising my hand and debating this but eventually I just gave up as here was the guy who's company colored Social Network telling me this is how they do it and I'm like, okay, I'm outta my league...

Max
 
Subhadip Sen said:
Are you suggesting that 12-bit 4K 444s contain all the information as a 16-bit 5K R3D? That is in the realm of impossibility, unfortunately, not to mention it is baked in. Isn't that what RED's message is all about - stay RAW till the last? What's the point if we were to get a baked codec? Might as well abandon REDCODE.
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Sorry, but 12-bit **log** is not directly comparable to the Epic's 16-bit linear -- and that's what you're doing. So yeah, Michael is right -- a 12-bit 4444 RedLogFilm output, from the point of view of a colorist, is better than working with the native R3D -- it's a hell of a lot faster to work with, and has the same dynamic range (not better -- no transcode can give you *more* dynamic range).

Look, the Alexa has more dynamic range than the Epic -- and does just fine with 12-bit 4444 log. If that doesn't convince people that 12-bit log has the dynamic range, I don't know what will. Even 10-bit log is pretty damn awesome.
 
Erich Ocean said:
Sorry, but 12-bit **log** is not directly comparable to the Epic's 16-bit linear -- and that's what you're doing. So yeah, Michael is right -- a 12-bit 4444 RedLogFilm output, from the point of view of a colorist, is better than working with the native R3D -- it's a hell of a lot faster to work with, and has the same dynamic range (not better -- no transcode can give you *more* dynamic range).
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And it appeared that would be what they edit with on Quantel Pablo's - i.e., the very big boys toys.
 
There is a ton of knee jerk reaction going on here. It's day 1 of x version 0 . Apple are big enough and sensible enough to know that there are some missing pieces in the jigsaw. I wouldn't jump ship just yet... Just let this baby evolve , the missing pieces will follow . Patience really is a virtue and as Red lovers we all have plenty of that right ?
 
You need an nVida card to make CS5.5 perform correctly. I am working on a 3 year old machine with an additional Quadro 4000 installed. I can work on any kind of project of any length. I'm playing back rd3 files in real time at half rez. They look silky smooth. I seldom have a crash.

With the nVidia card you can just drag and drop 5D videos into a Project without transcoding. Actually, I never transcode anything from a tapeless format. Hours are saved every day. This is a totally stable environment to work in.

-Dave Dessel
 
For movies etc, he renders to dpx, not prores, and grades in Pablo.

Max Kaiser said:
I am REALLY not the guy to elaborate on this as I am out of my league. Our workflow has always been - edit the proxies, color in Color using r3ds, output 1080p from color back to FCP and do final output from there.

Cioni from Light-Iron, who does a hell of a lot of this stuff, at Reducation, preached that is NOT the way to be doing it. That rather you should -

1) Transcode using redcine-x/redrocket using a one-light pass and your favorite color look to prores lt or something light. Set your white balance here.
2) Transcode again using redcine-x but FIRST setting looks to redlogfilm and redgamma2 (or was it redlogfilm2, redgamma, can't exactly remember), this time transcode to Prores444. Again, set your White Balance here.
3) Edit your LT transcodes in FCP until you've got picture lock
4) Reconnect to the 444s
5) Color in FCP, or if you need secondaries, etc., in Color.

Again, this was really weird for us. We'd given up doing WB on set, etc. as we just did it at the end in color. Now we've got back to white balancing on set.

Anyhow, Cioni's story (and I hope I'm not screwing this up) was that with 444s you've got just as much information as in the r3ds and that furthermore any pro colorist would ONLY want 444s to color, and not r3ds. This was hard for me to swallow, for sure...

Again, this is really off-topic here and should probably be somewhere else, with someone more knowledgeable than I chirping in...

Regardless, at the moment FCPX ain't going to work for most of this because it's color controls seem pretty simple, etc. There will be a plug-in, I'm sure - for another couple $100 or so...

Thanks,
Max
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I watched the keynote with everyone else and had great expectations. I've read over all of your posts also.I think the anger comes from the lack of communication from apple and unmet expectations instilled from the previous version of their product.

The developers and designers probably killed themselves trying to solve the big problem of how to edit better. They focused all of their resources into that to truly innovate in that respect. The effort went into getting a fast and solid core and new methodology that they could build on. All of that is fantastic. They failed however in providing a roadmap for making it a professional application.

If there had simply been a release that said "We worked really hard on this core product, but it will take us 6 months to get workflow support going. Here is this version for the web folks who can use it today. Those needing advanced input output can use fcp7 until that is released."

Problem solved.

People are jumping ship because you need to have the confidence to buy into a platform. You build everything around that experience, and you want to be in business with a company that is headed in the same direction that you are. It's frightening to spend 10 years thinking you understood your relationship with Apple and FCP without the reassurance that we're still on the same team.

Apple can fix this entire mess with a single communication from their team.
 
This does all seem ironic now that FCPX can finally make full use of the hardware.

@Zach Gray, +1, well put.
 
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