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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro X Released

Max Kaiser said:
Okey dokey, this is what I meant - I'm not an expert in this. I wish someone else who was at Reducation, or someone further up the line could comment, I'm just telling you what we were taught - AT RED. Perhaps what was meant was that you wouldn't be really using that information anyway, but I cannot answer this. I was in a room with about 30-40 other people and I kept raising my hand and debating this but eventually I just gave up as here was the guy who's company colored Social Network telling me this is how they do it and I'm like, okay, I'm outta my league...

Max
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Still thank you for sharing that info. Since not all of us are cutting Social Network, what you just posted helps us for certain things :)
 
Erich Ocean said:
Sorry, but 12-bit **log** is not directly comparable to the Epic's 16-bit linear -- and that's what you're doing. So yeah, Michael is right -- a 12-bit 4444 RedLogFilm output, from the point of view of a colorist, is better than working with the native R3D -- it's a hell of a lot faster to work with, and has the same dynamic range (not better -- no transcode can give you *more* dynamic range).

Look, the Alexa has more dynamic range than the Epic -- and does just fine with 12-bit 4444 log. If that doesn't convince people that 12-bit log has the dynamic range, I don't know what will. Even 10-bit log is pretty damn awesome.
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I've color and graded r3d files, entire feature, spec spots, commercial spots. With for all intensive purposes, not exactly the most beefy Resolve setup on the planet, it's pretty plain jane, and it graded fast. Only major difference is real time play back when you start stacking blurs. but the flexibility of RAW was the best part of the process and totally worth a little bit choppy playback. I was grading a feature completely shot on the old M sensor, and still on old color science. the fact that I could change to all new color science on the fly made the film look 10x better. Otherwise the whole thing would have been re-transcoded. how is that faster? you have a 1 light for your edit, and you'll have to transcode again to do color work? it's much faster to online directly to r3d, or whatever the HQ source is.

And it's still not a deal breaker for me not having native r3d support, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Offline workflows are very worthwhile, and I really see little point in editing r3ds. it's important to be in r3ds when you finish, it simply doesn't matter when you are in editorial and have a decent 1 light on it. the only time I can see it useful is if you have a quick turn around to meet for a short piece, and have no rocket available for your transcode. But honestly I found a rocket investment, a better one rather than a new NLE right now. it's a incredibly valuable tool.

but the lack of edl/xml support in fcp x IS the deal breaker for me because it breaks the workflows I, and practically all professionals use. Not to mention, as archaic as it sounds, there's no tape based workflow either, nor is there 3rd party plugin or hardware support. we are still in a big tape based world, and even though it's changing, it's still there and not offering legacy support is just ill of apple.

I seriously feel like the rushed fcp x out, and dropped it before it was truly ready, but bit the bullet and decided to just add onto it as time passed. for now, 350 dollars or so is staying in the pocket...
 
One more unfortunate side effect of this release...

The DSLR/Gopro/Flip camp is probably thinking it's awesome as is. They don't need xml/omf for the run and gun projects. It's going to be download a million times today, and apple will say it's the most successful release ever. The complex workflow centric users will be harder to hear.
 
As of now, there is no integrated export, so Automatic duck relies on this funky drag drop method.

http://automaticduck.com/user_guides/PEFCP5UserGuide/index.html

DragFromProjectLibraryToPEFCP_sm.jpg
 
Liam Hall said:
I love these people who say they are jumping ship. I wonder if they have downloaded FCPX or indeed, if they have a ship...
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Uggh I jumped ship today...broke down and ate a McRib :p
 
A note to everybody saying that this is just version 1.0 and we need to give Apple time:

NO IT'S NOT VERSION 1.0! IT'S VERSION 8! DOH! And if a company with $60bn in the bank can't develop something fully before taking it to market then I'm a dutchman. This is their vision of the future. You buy a Mac use iMovie then migrate to FCP and share your videos. In 10 years time this will be true for all but a tiny part of the film industry. Editors will wear suits and go to work in faceless offices and report to a manager with no Producer to be seen and they certainly won't have 'Editor' in their job title. They will all have learnt FCP as an embryo and video will be just another tool used by them and fellow employees across companies all around the world in their normal working life. Video will be everywhere made by everyone. The RED forum is mostly full of those of us who want to be in that tiny, shrinking minority or being Pro's, making films that speak to people. And the truth is that the tools we use are largely irrelevant. 16mm, 35mm, 3k, 4k, 5k, tape to tape, non-linear, nobody cares about our wacky terminology when they buy into the story.
 
JustinC said:
A note to everybody saying that this is just version 1.0 and we need to give Apple time:

NO IT'S NOT VERSION 1.0! IT'S VERSION 8! DOH! And if a company with $60bn in the bank can't develop something fully before taking it to market then I'm a dutchman. This is their vision of the future. You buy a Mac use iMovie then migrate to FCP and share your videos. In 10 years time this will be true for all but a tiny part of the film industry. Editors will wear suits and go to work in faceless offices and report to a manager with no Producer to be seen and they certainly won't have 'Editor' in their job title. They will all have learnt FCP as an embryo and video will be just another tool used by them and fellow employees across companies all around the world in their normal working life. Video will be everywhere made by everyone. The RED forum is mostly full of those of us who want to be in that tiny, shrinking minority or being Pro's, making films that speak to people. And the truth is that the tools we use are largely irrelevant. 16mm, 35mm, 3k, 4k, 5k, tape to tape, non-linear, nobody cares about our wacky terminology when they buy into the story.
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It's not an upgrade of 7, this is a complete re write. It IS version 1.
 
I have to wonder if The Foundry saw this coming and that their master plan with STORM is to ultimately make it a full featured NLE. With how close they seem to be with RED we may see STORM turn into a dream come true for a lot of us...

I really hope I am right.
 
Erich Ocean said:
Sorry, but 12-bit **log** is not directly comparable to the Epic's 16-bit linear -- and that's what you're doing. So yeah, Michael is right -- a 12-bit 4444 RedLogFilm output, from the point of view of a colorist, is better than working with the native R3D -- it's a hell of a lot faster to work with, and has the same dynamic range (not better -- no transcode can give you *more* dynamic range).

Look, the Alexa has more dynamic range than the Epic -- and does just fine with 12-bit 4444 log. If that doesn't convince people that 12-bit log has the dynamic range, I don't know what will. Even 10-bit log is pretty damn awesome.
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We are not talking about 16-bit linear, we are talking about 16-bit RAW. RAW has no colorspace till you bake it in. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, this is effectively validating Alexa's ProRes (LogC) output and dismissing Epic's RAW as a non-feature. If ProRes 4444 is really more desirable than REDCODE RAW, then why shoot RAW at all?

Also, this doesn't solve the fact that Epic shoots 5K and ProRes 4444 only goes up to 4K. Add to that the fact that ProRes 4444 is not a lossless codec, you are definitely losing some detail. As for performance, as Tom has mentioned, native R3D grading is just fine on mainstream machines.

I think this issue deserves it's own thread.
 
JustinC said:
A note to everybody saying that this is just version 1.0 and we need to give Apple time:

NO IT'S NOT VERSION 1.0! IT'S VERSION 8! DOH! And if a company with $60bn in the bank can't develop something fully before taking it to market then I'm a dutchman. ....
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I'm not saying they need more time. A full release would have been far better after all this time. I'm saying they need to communicate better.

People will invent their own story when there is no information. I this case the missing information was that FCP will still be a pro app, and the narrative that I'm seeing be invented is "Apple is not making pro apps, it's a toy, and I can't deal with that". That's a fair assumption, but the truth is that nobody knows until apple says differently.
 
After all I've read here (and in other forums) I have my doubts that it's worth the time investing in FCP X. In the professional enviornment Apple was always stronger in buying the software from other (professional) companies (Logic, Color, even FCP,...). If you reinvent the wheel it still should take you from A to B.

Thomas.
 
Zach Gray said:
I'm not saying they need more time. A full release would have been far better after all this time. I'm saying they need to communicate better.

People will invent their own story when there is no information. I this case the missing information was that FCP will still be a pro app, and the narrative that I'm seeing be invented is "Apple is not making pro apps, it's a toy, and I can't deal with that". That's a fair assumption, but the truth is that nobody knows until apple says differently.
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I think thats what the word "Pro" at the end of Final Cut is supposed to say, the narrative that apple is not making pro apps isn't a narrative coming out of apple it's coming from users who expect one thing and get another and declare that without it it could never ever be professional.
 
Subhadip Sen said:
We are not talking about 16-bit linear, we are talking about 16-bit RAW. RAW has no colorspace till you bake it in. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, this is effectively validating Alexa's ProRes (LogC) output and dismissing Epic's RAW as a non-feature. If ProRes 4444 is really more desirable than REDCODE RAW, then why shoot RAW at all?

Also, this doesn't solve the fact that Epic shoots 5K and ProRes 4444 only goes up to 4K. Add to that the fact that ProRes 4444 is not a lossless codec, you are definitely losing some detail. As for performance, as Tom has mentioned, native R3D grading is just fine on mainstream machines.

I think this issue deserves it's own thread.
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Here! Here! My gang here would love to follow it...

Max
 
Liam Hall said:
According to Apple, this is version ten. At least, that's what it says on the license.
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It's still a complete re-write, they handled imovie the same way. Re wrote it and built it back up, minus export to tape much to the downfall of many contestants of the V48hours 2010... at the finish line, wondering how to put their shorts on a DV tape.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
It's not an upgrade of 7, this is a complete re write. It IS version 1.
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I think what he's trying to say is that they had a perfectly good editing suite, and now they went and threw it all in the gutter and released a souped up Imovie which is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Oh well, glad I mad the switch to adobe a while ago.
 
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