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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro X Released

For many professionals, switching to another vendor is a huge deal. It's not as simple as just installing new software on a computer. It's very expensive and just a huge pain in the ass. There are post shops that have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in support equipment.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Again, we do not live in the future, we live and work today.
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And FCP7 still works today.

My reason for mentioning the internet and YouTube, in particular, was to dispel the myth that it's not a professional delivery method. You seem to be hung up on the fact that since it's not the PREDOMINANT professional delivery method, it doesn't qualify. Professional projects are and will be produced with it in mind. I'm a designer of motion graphics. I can create something in AE and Maya, edit in FCPX and post it to the web. Why can't you be happy for me?

Back in the day, Softimage and Alias PowerAnimator could set you back between $40K - $60K, if not more. Now, Softimage is $2,995 and Maya is $3,495 and they're more powerful and easier to use than ever. Costs come down and features improve. You know this. $30K for a monitor is unreasonable for most today but that price will change drastically.

From my standpoint FCPX not being ready for certain tasks is no different than the Epic-M costing $58K. Both mean I have to wait. In the case of FCPX, I have to wait on features. In the case of Epic, it means I have to wait until I can afford it. All indications point to both becoming a reality.

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here, Christoffer. You haven't added anything new to your arguments in a week. You're not offering any new insights over the facts that we all know.
 
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Brian Boyer said:
Why can't you be happy for me?
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Because this whole thing isn't about you, it's about Apple's behavior. Those arguing here opposite the frustrated are arguing like yourself that they should be happy and patient about what is possibly to come. That your own theory behind Apple's behavior should alleviate the reality of it.

Wrong answer.

If you want a thread for those overjoyed about FCPX, this is obviously not it and now amount of advocating additional wait-and-see will change the crux of the problem.
 
So I called my favourite systems integrator to ask if I could buy some copies of FCP 7 and told no more were available and they could have sold hundreds were it to be available for sale. They cant sell FCP X as its an app store only purchase so whilst they will do what they can to support their valued customers they cant support the app as they cant sell it. They are clearly upset about this as they cant sell the software they would like and continue business that they had worked hard to build and are expert in supporting. Im very upset for them, they are fine people.

In a state of confusion I have now returned to the app store as where I purchased this blasted app from to see its rating that has more single stars that 5 stars. Its squeezed in between Battle stations midway, Trio, The Great Settlement, Boom, War Grimore and Tagalicious what ever the hell that is ,which now has put this debacle in to perspective.
 
Funny how this whole criticism has drifted from "FCP-X is not adequate for professionals" to "Apple's attitude is the real problem." :001_huh:
 
Chris Kenny said:
But this is trivially explained without resort to the "Apple doesn't care about pro users" meme.
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I didn't say that Apple doesn't care: I said that they care less. This is reflected in their actions, it is reflected in the statement attributed to them, and it is a meaningful choice to many of us. I understand that YOU are okay with Apple's choice - and that's your prerogative. Many of us are not okay with it, and you should accept that THAT is our prerogative.
 
Brad Webb said:
For many professionals, switching to another vendor is a huge deal. It's not as simple as just installing new software on a computer. It's very expensive and just a huge pain in the ass. There are post shops that have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in support equipment.
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I second this.

I have no idea what the world wide business cost is but hundreds of millions or a few Billion Id say, plus the creative losses due to the disruption caused.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Funny how this whole criticism has drifted from "FCP-X is not adequate for professionals" to "Apple's attitude is the real problem." :001_huh:
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It seemed like it was generally agreed that the current release of FCPX is not adequate for professionals. Even your buddy Chris seemed to grant that point. Was your post meant to imply that you disagree, or perhaps that you want to quibble about the word professional again? No offense intended: just want to understand what you're hinting at.

Cheers,
Tim
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Funny how this whole criticism has drifted from "FCP-X is not adequate for professionals" to "Apple's attitude is the real problem." :001_huh:
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This isn't Tron, those missing [unactivated] features didn't hop on lightcycles and leave the grid by themselves ;).
 
Chris Kenny said:
Um... you're really going to characterize it as "wild speculation" to say that Apple is attempting to draw a paraell between OS X and FCP X by using the 'X'?



Huh? I'm not sure why you'd think this little bit of information is remotely at odds with my position. My position is, in fact, that Apple shipped FCP X as soon as they believed they had something commercially viable, rather than waiting until it had implemented a bunch of pro features that most FCP X users don't need, but that this shouldn't be read as an indication that Apple didn't care about the pro market or had no intention of adding pro features in the future. Your quote is confirmation of that position.

Look, this isn't really that hard to understand. Consumers need a certain set of features. Pros need a superset of those features. As a consequence, if you want to get to market as soon as possible, it makes sense to develop an app that meets the needs of consumers, release it, and then continue developing it into an app that meets the needs of pros. Structuring things differently doesn't get pros an app that meets their needs any sooner, it just keeps an app useful to consumers off the market for longer. People seem to have wanted Apple to do that just to sort of signal that they believed pro users were important, but this is simply not reasonable.
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Steve, for what little it's worth, I agree with you. I'm speculating that Apple felt some pressure from Adobe and to a lesser extent AVID, and some of it was simply wanting to meet earnings expectations. But it's Apple, and they have set a higher standard for themselves, and in this instance didn't live up to it. I think waiting and not buying FCPX could work out in many ways...
1. Apple does deliver before end of summer some needed features.
2. Adobe or Avid doesn't get the uptick in sales they hope for, panic, and drastically lower prices. Because they know when Apple set it's mind to something..they will get it done. The window
of opportunity is just as narrow for them as it is for Apple.
3. (In my perfect non Realistic Universe) Someone comes out of left field with a surprise for everyone.
4. Apple doesn't deliver, Adobe and Avid are still in business and they start getting more sales.

So the down side for customers is? Having to wait a little while longer.
 
Chris Kenny said:
My argument explains why shipping the initial version of FCP X without certain pro features does not usefully demonstrate this. So, why do you believe it?
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This quote was attributed to Apple:
Apple says that it is targeting the "prosumer" with Final Cut Pro X, people who want more video editing capabilities than the company offers on its iMovie software. It says features aimed at higher-end users will be added in the future.
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If you don't think that indicates that Apple cares about consumers first, then I think you are smoking crack.
 
Tim Morten said:
This quote was attributed to Apple:

If you don't think that indicates that Apple cares about consumers first, then I think you are smoking crack.
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The argument in this post addresses that. You can't simply ignore that argument and keep repeating that Apple that values consumers over pros.

(Or, what you're actually doing here, which is exploiting the two possible readings of "first"; your statement is technically correct in that Apple shipped a product for consumers prior to shipping a product for pros, but additionally contains the implication that Apple considers consumers more important, which is not a valid conclusion based on the evidence.)
 
Scott M said:
Because this whole thing isn't about you, it's about Apple's behavior. Those arguing here opposite the frustrated are arguing like yourself that they should be happy and patient about what is possibly to come. That your own theory behind Apple's behavior should alleviate the reality of it.

Wrong answer.

If you want a thread for those overjoyed about FCPX, this is obviously not it and now amount of advocating additional wait-and-see will change the crux of the problem.
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Why so serious? I'm afraid you mistook my joke as a viewpoint or stance on the subject. As such, your post sort of misses the mark.

"Why can't you be happy for me?" was supposed to be funny. You know...like a girl in a romantic comedy might say. Nobody talks like that for real. I don't expect you to actually be happy for me for any reason. It's my sense of humor.

I get that you're frustrated. I'm just trying to talk you off the ledge or get you to put the Molotov cocktail down. But, no amount of bitching on this forum is going to change the crux of the problem either. All it does is foster the mob mentality I mentioned earlier. If you really want to make a difference, bitch directly to Apple.
 
Chris Kenny said:
The argument in this post addresses that. You can't simply ignore that argument and keep repeating that Apple that values consumers over pros.

(Or, what you're actually doing here, which is exploiting the two possible readings of "first"; your statement is technically correct in that Apple shipped a product for consumers prior to shipping a product for pros, but additionally contains the implication that Apple considers consumers more important, which is not a valid conclusion based on the evidence.)
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crack-pipe.jpg
 
Brian Boyer said:
Why so serious? I'm afraid you mistook my joke as a viewpoint or stance on the subject. As such, your post sort of misses the mark.
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I get the intended humor, but that's the point isn't it, the "be happy for me at least since I'm happy about the potential?" Whether you meant it personally or not, your post captured the essence most directly, those arguing against the frustrated are still arguing for waiting to see what happens next. That it could be "a paradigm shift", and worth overlooking Apple's conduct. Where the real paradigm shift is that FCPX is the final straw for a lot of people, and no one believed that was possible. Bitching to Apple will help as much as bitching to the president, and only matters if you like the guy to begin with, neither is going to change their core after the fact. In this case a lot of people are decidedly done with Apple's behavior.

Why folks like yourself come in to these threads to further the arguments based on theories and probabilities against the realities, with little bits of salt to throw on the wounds while pretending to be outside and above the situation is what I find amusing and why I continue to snipe back, it's obvious those who continue to do so, have the time to waste. I've already asked a few pages back why come in here to defend Apple, and the answer was:

Chris Kenny said:
Why does anyone do anything other than exchange how-to information on these forums? People are interested in these subjects and interested in discussing them.
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I believe that FCPX could be the final straw for me, after having been burnt on Xserve, Shake etc. Smoke and Resolve are the only reasons that I may still stick to the Apple after all.

What are the alternatives to Smoke and Resolve in a Windows based environment?

As of the commercial success of Apple I am starting to feel a certain degree of distrust with Apples intentions in other areas than mobile devices. Presently I am more than happy with Adobes Master collection 5.5, which works even better on Windows (I'm told), yet i would want a better color grading solution than what Adobe supplies.
 
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