Final Cut Pro X Released

[jake blackstone]

How, how do you have this now? It's not released until next month!!!

It's a developer's beta version. It's been out for a while.

 

[Sid Idris]

I am REALLY not the guy to elaborate on this as I am out of my league. Our workflow has always been - edit the proxies, color in Color using r3ds, output 1080p from color back to FCP and do final output from there.

Cioni from Light-Iron, who does a hell of a lot of this stuff, at Reducation, preached that is NOT the way to be doing it. That rather you should -

1) Transcode using redcine-x/redrocket using a one-light pass and your favorite color look to prores lt or something light. Set your white balance here.
2) Transcode again using redcine-x but FIRST setting looks to redlogfilm and redgamma2 (or was it redlogfilm2, redgamma, can't exactly remember), this time transcode to Prores444. Again, set your White Balance here.
3) Edit your LT transcodes in FCP until you've got picture lock
4) Reconnect to the 444s
5) Color in FCP, or if you need secondaries, etc., in Color.

Again, this was really weird for us. We'd given up doing WB on set, etc. as we just did it at the end in color. Now we've got back to white balancing on set.

Anyhow, Cioni's story (and I hope I'm not screwing this up) was that with 444s you've got just as much information as in the r3ds and that furthermore any pro colorist would ONLY want 444s to color, and not r3ds. This was hard for me to swallow, for sure...

Again, this is really off-topic here and should probably be somewhere else, with someone more knowledgeable than I chirping in...

Regardless, at the moment FCPX ain't going to work for most of this because it's color controls seem pretty simple, etc. There will be a plug-in, I'm sure - for another couple $100 or so...

Thanks,
Max

Seems silly to discard all that raw metadata before coloring. I understand by going to 4444 your getting a wide enough gamut but to be honest grading in R3D (at least on Apple Color) is cake. Why discard the info if you don't need to?

 

[Kalechi Noel]

Can Anyone confirm whether my EXTENSIVE LIBRARY of PAID PLUGINS, TRANSITIONS, Filters (Colorista 2 etc) for FCP7 will import and work and transition over to FCPX????

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I want to preface this by saying, I have zero insider information on what's coming in future updates to FCP. Everything is speculation. But I want to throw some ideas out there and see where people are at.

iMovie haters:Do I enjoy editing in iMovie? Can't say I've done much in that app. Wasn't the biggest fan the couple of times I've tried it. Possible reason, it's just different from what I'm used when it comes to an editor. For those dissing the iMovie import. Let me ask you a question. If you had a client that likes to do an initial rough draft edit in iMovie and then wants to get a project over to you and your professional editing system, would it hurt to have a way to do it? If that client is paying you a good rate, wouldn't you want to be able to accommodate them. Not saying this is going to be the norm, but does it hurt having it as an option? As for the interface looking like iMovie, I don't necessarily care if it looks the same or similar, but I do care that it's capable of doing everything I need it to when it comes to meeting the needs of my clients and making me money. That is still to be determined.

Lack of professional workflow:I truly believe there will be solutions coming, and not just from Apple. Otherwise, why go through this rewrite, and why keep the name of the app, Final Cut Pro? They could have combined iMovie and FCP and called it iMovie Pro, which if intended to hit more consumers would fit right in with their "i" branding. Also, if this were intended more for the consumer base, why not make a bigger splash on Apple's website. Today's release is a bit buried don't you think? That's because the people they are aiming this at make up a small market compared to just about everything else they offer. They knew professionals would find it and pass the word along. They also know that we're all kind of used to beta products and internet updates by now. They felt it was time to get it out there and start getting people used to the new interface while continuing development and helping third parties add support. I will be the first to admit, if we're still lacking some of the necessary professional workflow solutions in a year, then Apple missed the mark by a long shot. I expect to see more features added in the next 3-6 months as the new Mac Pros roll out, and Thunderbolt matures and becomes more integrated. I believe if the architecture has been done well, then the solutions we will see from 3rd parties might in fact be much better than Apple could have done on their own. If Black Magic is able to tap into Final Cut and create a seamless way to get a sequence from FCP to Davinci, will we complain about that? Probably not. If a third party comes along and writes a robust XML/EDL plug-in that is far better than anything Apple has ever done, would we complain? Probably not. It might take some time, but if that's the route they go and 3rd parties are able to put in great tools inside FCP, I think the workflow fears may go away. I could be completely wrong on this.

Native R3D supportCan anyone confirm or deny this is not coming? The backbone appears to be there to allow it. Yes, it is not there right now, but not sure we can blame Apple just yet. There may be reasons why. Until we get official word on this, probably have to wait it out. Having said that, I would love to have the option (and it's just an option because sometimes I would still prefer NOT to use native format) of cutting with R3Ds using RR to decode playback and rendering. But quite honestly, i have also seen some limitations to this in the past, namely getting a signal back out to an HD-SDI monitor. So, there's still work to be done in this area across the board.

What does this change right now?A lot of people seem to be indicating they will jump ship. I'm curious what work are you not able to do right now? And if there is something that FCP 7 is doing that limits your ability to get work done, does Adobe or Avid solve those problems in the interim? To me, FCPx is a product that has potential 3-6 months from now, if for no other reason than that's usually about the amount of time I feel comfortable using something for paid work, unless it's a one of a kind product that works right out of the box and is easy to get implemented. But if FCP 7 suits your needs right now and is making you money, then you have the luxury of playing with FCPx until it reaches the potential you need it to. And if it doesn't, then it's probably time to explore other avenues. But how many people honestly feel there is a gun being held to their head right now to upgrade or cross-grade their editing platform? That's not to say I don't have a laundry list of things that challenge my workflow at times (gamma issues, etc). Perhaps it's not knowing what is coming down the road that is the problem. Which leads me to:

Apple's CommunicationApple's policies when it comes to NDAs are strict, okay perhaps a better way to put it, they are insanely secretive and go to great lengths to keep product announcements, R&D, etc out of the public eye until they are ready. In some ways, it's part of the Apple mystique. In other ways, it drives professionals like ourselves mad because we can't always plan our purchases, or in the case of FCP what direction we'll go in when it comes to upgrading our facilities. Apple works on their schedule, not ours. So, when they release a product like FCPx and it has a lot of things missing, or it's not quite what people expected, their model falls apart in some ways. I'm sure there are people in their pro apps division who would love to come out and say "Look, we've got all of this covered. In August you will see support for this, and in November you will see support for that". But I don't think that's how it works at Apple. When you see Dave from Adobe come on here and say we're working on a solution for that problem, it leaves you with a sense of direction. With Apple, you are left wondering if there will be a solution and you'll probably never know until it's ready. Different philosophy. Will Apple change? I don't know. I think they should to a certain extent. I think they need a couple of really good reps who can interface with the pro market and communicate with them. Perhaps they can't reveal everything they are working on, but they could reassure people that they are listening. Then again, Apple is worth a hell of a lot more money than I am, so I guess they can do it anyway they want. Communication, especially in a social media type of world, is something that companies can't underestimate.

Panic?No need to. In 3 months we will probably know a lot more. By then, if you have invested the $299 to learn the interface, see where they are going with it, you wil probably either be on the train, hungry for more features or you will have moved on, or stayed right where you are. No need to panic today. If you are a diehard FCP user, you may have more reason to panic later if what I have been talking about above doesn't happen. If they leave a lot of professionals out in the cold, and decide to ignore the needs of many an editor working with all kinds of formats, all kinds of workflows, then yes, it may be time to panic. Personally, I think they have a plan. It may not live up to everyone's expectations, but I can't see the completely F'ing this up because if they do, they wasted a lot of time and effort and should have just sold it to another company.

 

[Detlev Eller]

...
From everything else I'm hearing, this release should have been called "iMovie Plus".

I predict that Avid and Adobe are going to be getting a lot of market-share back...

... interesting.

I use FCP since its birth and was on AVID and M100 before that ....

I wished for the imovie skimming within FCP since i first saw it .... i think, it is genius.

And did anyone notice the color tools to match shots .... and ... and ... and ...

Funny to read such comments. There is a real, real good version of a great software with enormous creative and workflow gains ...
and still, people are bashing it ....


weird world we live in.

Now, looking forward to dig a little deeper into this X version ... from what i see, i love it!

 

[ChristopherKenworthy]

... from what i see, i love it!

Even though you can't edit Red footage with it? It's a toy and will soon be a memory.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

... interesting.

I use FCP since its birth and was on AVID and M100 before that ....

I wished for the imovie skimming within FCP since i first saw it .... i think, it is genius.

And did anyone notice the color tools to match shots .... and ... and ... and ...

Funny to read such comments. There is a real, real good version of a great software with enormous creative and workflow gains ...
and still, people are bashing it ....


weird world we live in.

Now, looking forward to dig a little deeper into this X version ... from what i see, i love it!

It doesn't support my workflow... hence my issues with it. Even more I've been waiting for years for it to support my workflow and thought the issue would be resolved on release. I can't keep waiting for an app to be pro. Even more "my workflow" is an industry leading standard that is not supported... and I don't mean just R3D.

 

[Jim Hoffman]

This has some interesting new features. Been playing with it a bit today. Imovie Plus is where its at for me right now. It won't be a Pro app until it plays well with others (EDL XML R3D...WTF) or completely eliminates the need to do so.

I appreciate RED more in a situation where a company like Apple says nothing but disappoints on delivery anyway because expectations run wild.

Old FCP still lives on. I wish they would fix the bugs in that and I'd be happier. Still a great tool. I just wish I had insight as to what to expect and when. Blah Blah Blah

 

[David McGavran]

I want to switch to Premier Pro. I currently have CS3 (PP, AE, etc..). How much would it cost me to upgrade to CS5.5?

There is a upgrade popup on the adobe web store. To go from CS3 to CS5.5 is $949 us I believe. It scales depending on what version you are coming from. 5.5 has a free FULLY functional 30 day trial with all formats supported.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Bruce Allen]

Let me try this:

If Fincher's team ran 6 years late editing The Social Network - and when they finally showed a cut in 2015, they said "hey dudes, it's a rough cut, audio's not mixed yet"

We'd say "WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU DOING FOR ALL THOSE YEARS???".

It'd be kinda missing the point to defend him and say "Chill out, it's just a rough cut."

The question remains: "Why the heck is such a feature-lacking product being released after such a stupid long wait?"

If FCP X had come out in 2010... the lack of R3D support would be excusable. The main issue is not the fact that a v1.0 product is lacking in features... it's that it took Apple so damn long to even get to v1.0.

Between the last version of FCP and this new FCP X, The Foundry managed to make a whole new program - Storm - with R3D support. The fact is that right now Apple is very late in the game for R3D support and behind pretty much every software developer in the post production field. Heck, even Media 100 is advertising R3D support on the banner on Reduser!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Terry VerHaar]

"It doesn't support my workflow." - If you are convinced it never will, you should use something else.

"I can't keep waiting for an app to be pro." - The implication being that YOU are the "pro" standard. Walter Murch is chopped liver? Are you saying if it doesn't support your workflow, it isn't pro and all who use it must not be "pro" either. Seems a little grandiose to define "pro" as anything that is like you and, conversely, anything NOT like you isn't pro.

"My workflow is an industry standard." - People do things differently. Things change. Standards evolve. Are you sure YOU are the standard by which everyone else should be measured?

Geesh.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

"If you are convinced it never will, you should use something else.

I'm currently using Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 with the Epic plugin and loving it. I was waiting around to see if FCPX would give it some competition. I'm not convinced it never will... just that it hasn't for the last few years and probably won't won't for the next year.

Walter Murch is chopped liver?

Do you know if he's using FCPX?

As far as standards go I would assume many editors have been using AJA or BM video capture cards with support for their color calibrated monitors and i/o decks.

 

[Kalechi Noel]

Does Colorista and all my paid plugins, transiftions work in FCPX???? This will determine whether i buy it or not

 

[joshua csehak]

It's so close to great... Nice and fast, Color built-in... except WWWWHHHHYYY on earth would they leave out key features like being able to adjust the lift/gamma/gain (now called global/midtones/highlights, which I'm fine with) for the RGB channels independently? Or why would they make it so you can't bring the softness of a shape mask all the way to 1.0? Or no numeric adjustments at all, for that matter? And who wants to scrub the timeline by rolling over it? It's freaking annoying! So close, and yet so far.

I understand that it's a rewrite, but I don't understand how it's okay to release a new version of a software package that has less functionality than the old one.

But at the end of the day, if they don't charge me for updates to get it to a useable state, I'm happy. I think that's the bottom line. $300 is a reasonable upgrade price for a $1000 initial purchase of the previous version. (Kinda sucks that Motion and Compressor are extra though.) Might have to play around with Premiere. Or start saving up for Smoke...

 

[Tobias Ashenheim]

if you wanna place your confidence in an imovie based automated piece of software go for it. but objectively, its currently not supporting some of the most widely used formats used in the industry. Surely proffessional today means accommodating widely used industry workflows formats.

or maybe we should all start shooting on iphones to accommodate our editing software?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Walter Murch is chopped liver?

No, but I do not see how he could possibly edit a feature film with Final Cut Pro X as it is now.

People do things differently. Things change. Standards evolve. Are you sure YOU are the standard by which everyone else should be measured?

I think you are missing the point. This is not a case of Apple releasing a product so innovative that we are not ready for it. This is Apple either releasing a product that is incomplete or completely changing their target market for the product without telling the majority of their user base this is happening.

 

[mikeburton]

You need to get that Red persecution chip off your shoulder. How about ARRI RAW, Fantom, SI etc? Nope, not there too...EDL is old, while XML and AAF are much more robust formats. Apple shouldn't deal with material getting in and out of FCPx. Let BM, Autodesk, Nuke etc deal with it...

I hear what you're saying here Jake and I appreciate and agree with your argument on the R3D and the other Raw acquisition camera systems not being supported. That said, I disagree that EDL is not important. As a colorist myself who primarily conforms projects day in and day out I can see forsee the pain of a director coming to me with a FCPx project with over 1,000 cuts saying "okay" conform it. Without EDL support this simple quick conforming show just turned into a total nightmare. So, wouldn't you agree that this is of major concern to the post community that besides a plug-in workflow ie Automatic Duck there is really no method of mastering your project back to a RAW source? Really, how difficult would it have been to simply add just EDL support? Again, i think you have the right idea about what apple may be plotting by not including RAW camera support but without EDL they just basically said to the user "once inside we are locking the door and throwing away the key".

Edit: scratch that, Automatic Duck I'm sure isn't supported yet. And please, if anyone says anything about automatic scene detection I'm going to vomit.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

How can Walter Murch even use his "pro" setup with FCPX? LOL

 

[Terry VerHaar]

No, but I do not see how he could possibly edit a feature film with Final Cut Pro X as it is now.



I think you are missing the point. This is not a case of Apple releasing a product so innovative that we are not ready for it. This is Apple either releasing a product that is incomplete or completely changing their target market for the product without telling the majority of their user base this is happening.

Well, actually, I think you are missing the point. And I completely disagree with your presuppositions. I think it is intended to start a paradigm shift. I think some of the features will take 30-40% of the editing time for many projects. Is it all the way there yet? No. Will it meet even most of my own needs? I have no real idea yet. Will it evolve? I am sure it will.

If you don't like it, that's fine. I just find it so annoying that people are egotistical enough to say "If it doesn't work for me, it isn't pro." If it doesn't work for me, well then, I will find something that does. I am not defending whether FCPX is "the way to go." Like I said, I haven't even made that decision for myself yet. I am surely not going to try and make it for you! I am simply calling out the people who define the state of the art by their standards alone.

It will be interesting to come back to visit this situation in a month, 3 months, a year...

 

[Ivan G]

Why in the FUCK are people saying that Apple is new to the game and they will make progress?!?!?!? I'm so upset at this dumb ass release but the funny part about all this was that I didn't even get my hopes up. After reading everyones frustration I just felt that I had to rip Apple another hole! I feel as if my hands are tied just because I've been using Apple since the 90's and never ever even bothered looking at another platform or editing software. That is after I dropped Media 100. All I can say is the fucking ship is sinking and I'm in the muthatfucker! Thanks Apple!