Field Audio Acquisition Crash Course...

[Nicholas Shields]

First, let me apologize if this question has already been asked and answered - I did a quick search to no avail.

I would like to know if there's a brief (three day or under) crash course on field audio acquisition. I don't want to offend and say we "only need a few days primer", but our resources are limited. Our firm has been in business for some time, but we'd like to send a few folks out for training - to ensure we don't inbreed any bad habits. We are located just outside of Detroit in Windsor Ontario Canada - but we're willing to travel. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick.

 

[Marc Wielage]

You're much better off hiring an experienced location sound mixer. What you need to know can't be learned in 3 days, just as you can't learn to be a cinematographer in 3 days. Certainly, you can learn the basics​, but that's not the same thing as being able to do a job well.

 

[Eric Santiago]

How about we start one now with this post?

I have a few questions coming from a camera providers pov of course.

Ive been asked to supply audio to the video village using the Paralinx Arrow +.

The scratch mic on the Scarlet doesnt do justice and splitting headphone out from Sound Devices 744T is cumbersome 90% of the time.

I have the A-Box and found no way of getting audio from the 744T to my Scarlet.

What steps do I take now?

Am I asking too much of the Arrow + to carry audio and video?

Besides the issue of Jam Sync (yes buy two cables...) how does one get audio from the 744T into my Scarlet?

And if anyone else has any tips, (even with other gear) please chime in and build our own crash course.

 

[Wil Wong]

Nice request. Not sure about the Windsor or Detroit area but there are a few places in Toronto. Another option is to hire a sound guy that can offer a basic training...things like how lav mics pick up sound, max distance a boom can be to still pick up good sound, editing, dealing with ambient noise or clothing rub etc.

Learning how sound works is as important as knowing how a director directs or how long make-up and hair take. It's important to know what a sound guy is thinking and looking for so you can effectively watch out and remedy their needs. A good sound guy will surely review what they do, why, and how. Experience is different, learning and understanding is the goal (if I'm correct).

 

[Nick Fury]

How about we start one now with this post?

I have a few questions coming from a camera providers pov of course.

Ive been asked to supply audio to the video village using the Paralinx Arrow +.

The scratch mic on the Scarlet doesnt do justice and splitting headphone out from Sound Devices 744T is cumbersome 90% of the time.

I have the A-Box and found no way of getting audio from the 744T to my Scarlet.

What steps do I take now?

Am I asking too much of the Arrow + to carry audio and video?

Besides the issue of Jam Sync (yes buy two cables...) how does one get audio from the 744T into my Scarlet?

And if anyone else has any tips, (even with other gear) please chime in and build our own crash course.[/QUOTE


Hi Eric,

Marc is always right and that is a great idea for the OP. Problem is that , you won't likely have the same kit as the consultant (most have their favorites, etc.) and you have to find one who is simpatico...

The Zaxcom ERX sound and Time code, via their proprietary Zaxnet technology works great for Tc and scratch audio, but that is a whole different kettle of fish, from the SD pieces. If you are going to try this on your own, going forward and that seems likely, there is a great piece of Fix it by Izotope, with free upgrade to RX4 advanced (+ other pieces like Deesser's reverb), if you look around. One source is here:

http://audiodeluxe.com/products/izotope-rx3-advanced-includes-insight

Maybe that works for you, maybe not, really depends on your delivery expectation/sources, etc., etc.,.

Thank you very much

fury

 

[Kwan Khan]

This may help as well, Please try it
http://www.lynda.com/Video-Audio-Vi...niques-Location-Audio-Recording/129015-2.html

 

[D Fuller]

First, let me apologize if this question has already been asked and answered - I did a quick search to no avail.

I would like to know if there's a brief (three day or under) crash course on field audio acquisition. I don't want to offend and say we "only need a few days primer", but our resources are limited. Our firm has been in business for some time, but we'd like to send a few folks out for training - to ensure we don't inbreed any bad habits. We are located just outside of Detroit in Windsor Ontario Canada - but we're willing to travel. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick.

The Maine Media Workshops offers a production sound course. Their courses are usually very good, taught by good, experienced people.
Check it out here.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

Nicholas-

I commend you for not wanting your crew to develop bad habits, but what you're attempting is something that cannot be done in a short amount of time. Let me explain:

First, a 3-4 day "field audio acquisition" course might teach you the basics about gear, acoustics, techniques for different situations, etc, BUT IT WILL NOT TEACH YOU ANYTHING ABOUT AUDIO POST PRODUCTION. Audio post production is just like video post production- it's where the magic happens.

Second, professional audio editing can take YEARS to master. Sure, the cleaner the files you receive from the field the better and quicker the post production generally is, but you will still need to know about audio editing software (i.e. Pro Tools), about plug-ins, effects, filters, and most importantly, EQ "carving" and mastering, which leads me to...

Third, mastering your audio has to be done in a proper acoustic facility with the right calibrated equipment. Again, it's like video; think of audio mastering like video color correction- you can do it on your home PC if you choose to, but don't expect the same results as a color correction house with equipment worth a small fortune. And let's not even get into surround sound mastering, room acoustics, etc.

Having said that, my recommendation is to divide your crew into 2 groups- field engineers and post engineers, and let them focus on only that.
Hire an audio field professional and pay him/her extra to give your field engineers a week long course in every possible situation.
Send the post crew to formal post classes in Toronto (lots of great facilities there) and let them focus in post only. This is how I would do it.

 

[Lakis Amarantithis]

I used the Pro i/o to get the sound from the 788t to the Scarlet/Epic through the aes.

I also use Pro-tools from Avid to sweeten the sound. You have endless plugins to do anything you like with voice.

A mixer and some sennheisers or sony's with sanken lavaliers can do an awesome job for 1 band run n gun also.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Marcos and Mr. Fury are very wise. I have found from painful experience that often the most difficult part of the job of the location sound mixer is the location. If the producers and director choose a bad, noisy location, the greatest audio recording and post in the world can't eliminate all the problems.

Eric, if you're trying to just hose in audio from a Sound Devices 744t (which is an excellent recorder, BTW), my advice would be to rent or borrow a wireless mic transmitter and receiver, take one of the outputs from the 744, and transmit it to the camera. Strap the wireless receiver to the top of the camera, and connect the output of the receiver to the input of the camera. That'll be a much, much better scratch track since it'll use the mics close to the actors, rather than a so-called "button" mic close to the camera.

I think in broad strokes, maybe 40% of getting decent sound lies with getting a good location, another 30% involves using great microphones placed in the right position, and the rest is problem-solving. I also have run into far more problems with power, RF interference, and timecode problems than I generally do with sound per se. All those are also the jurisdiction of the sound department, and solving them can be very taxing and trying.

Note that one big limitation of the 744 is that it has no mixer. The later SD recorders (633, 552, 664, 788) all have integrated mixers and will allow you to do a mono mix, which is very helpful for multiple-mic situations. I'm a firm believer in using multiple mics to give the post crew as many options as possible, even if 80% of the shoot is carried by the boom mic. You never know when one line here or there will have to come from a concealed wireless lav. And there are certainly situations (like interview and reality shows) where multiple wireless mics are mandatory.

 

[Eric Santiago]

...Eric, if you're trying to just hose in audio from a Sound Devices 744t (which is an excellent recorder, BTW), my advice would be to rent or borrow a wireless mic transmitter and receiver, take one of the outputs from the 744, and transmit it to the camera. Strap the wireless receiver to the top of the camera, and connect the output of the receiver to the input of the camera. That'll be a much, much better scratch track since it'll use the mics close to the actors, rather than a so-called "button" mic close to the camera..

Thanks Marc I actually had that in the works using Senn Lavs.

I take it I have to turn that line tape out on.

The Sound Guy didnt have it on during our initial tests.

Never enough time on set to tests these things

 

[Marc Wielage]

Thanks Marc I actually had that in the works using Senn Lavs.

I'm not generally a fan of Sennheiser lavs, because most of them are kind of big and clunky. I think Sanken, Countryman, and DPA all make stellar lavalier mics. On a low budget, the Oscar Sound Tech mics are OK for what they are. All of these are reasonably easy to hide, but require some skill and experience to know how to place them correctly.

I take it I have to turn that line tape out on. The Sound Guy didnt have it on during our initial tests. Never enough time on set to tests these things

That's on automatically, but the level of the mono tape output of the 744 has to be set (as I recall -- it's been awhile). You always, always, always have to do tests. On the rare occasions these days that I do sound, I drive myself nuts by testing everything -- especially batteries and wireless connections -- 24 hours prior to the shoot. I leave absolutely nothing to chance, being Mr. Paranoid. The last thing I ever want is a hold up in production due to sound.

 

[Eric Santiago]

...That's on automatically, but the level of the mono tape output of the 744 has to be set (as I recall -- it's been awhile). You always, always, always have to do tests. On the rare occasions these days that I do sound, I drive myself nuts by testing everything -- especially batteries and wireless connections -- 24 hours prior to the shoot. I leave absolutely nothing to chance, being Mr. Paranoid. The last thing I ever want is a hold up in production due to sound...

Wow we are both alike but I didnt have a chance to test the 744T till the day off shoot.

I will have a second chance at it today with a diferent 744T but this time with timecode jammed.

Crossing fingers

 

[Marc Wielage]

Wow we are both alike but I didnt have a chance to test the 744T till the day off shoot. I will have a second chance at it today with a diferent 744T but this time with timecode jammed.

Doh, I'd be catatonic if I couldn't test prior to the day of shoot... and this was with equipment I know inside and out! Good luck, and be sure to check the first few takes and make sure all is well. And make sure you use a CF card compatible with the 744 -- not all of them are.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Marc I finally got around to testing the Senn lavs as we discussed.

A good workaround but I think I have to dig deeper (into my pockets) and consider (jam sync?) a sync option.

Am I crazy to start adding digital slates and the sound devices into this mix?

where does it end for you folks that own your own gear?

coordinating sound with my camera with external resources has been a big fail in the last two productions and one being a full feauture

 

[Robert Hart]

I cannot speak too highly of Sound Devices gear when doing the unthinkable and operating alone where there should be a crew of three including a proper soundie.

I used a SD302 last weekend with C74 mike in a long Rode blimp, either propped on a chair or swung by the nearest passing person I could enslave for that moment.

In the melee of trying to grab more event coverage than I thought I was going to do, I forgot to trim the audio level. The SD302 had a limiter which saved the day for overblown audio with something still useful going into the camera. It was a used SD302 bought from a for-sale post right here on Reduser from a member.