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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Feel robbed

Why ENOUGH?

Because, shoulda, woulda, coulda won't change what is so.

Because if you depend on the resale value of something you buy to be stable, you're misimformed.

Because constant whining, bitching and expounding on how the world changed and didnt dare to ask you, is annoying, pointless and has nothing to do with business.

Thats why, ENOUGH.

If you dont like that reality, dont read it.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
Because if you depend on the resale value of something you buy to be stable, you're misimformed.
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I think the concept of "stable depreciation" due to technological progression is pretty universal to the working classes. :) I would say that the rate of that depreciation usually falls between the range of 20-50% loss during the product life. For example you buy a MacBook Pro for $3000... most people expect to sell it a few months later for around $2500 if a new model is not introduced at a cheaper price point.
 
Andrae Palmer said:
...if a new model is not introduced at a cheaper price point.
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Doesn't this sort of undercut your point? A "new model" i.e. (in my mind) is any product that could meet your needs better than your current one; doesn't have to be from the same manufacturer. There are periods of "disruptive technology." I think we are in one of those periods.
 
The assets involved Camera rental and creative services are not to be treated as passive investments. Go out and generate revenue from your investment. If you're an aspiring film maker then it has, and will always be, a smarter choice to rent. It only becomes economical to purchase if you have a slate of 3 of more films. The exception is if you are comfortable using older technology.

Everything has a life cycle. People should use their smarts and study their potential investment’s lifecycle before you take the plunge.
If you are a rental house and you wait 2 years to purchase the latest camera than you have no one to blame but yourself if that latest camera is superseded by another camera shortly after you buy it.

There is no right or wrong choices. Regardless, this is a business. It always has been and will always be. Treat it like a business and your chances of making the right choices for yourself and your business will improve.

I believe we should be thankful that a company like Red entering the market. If not we would be stuck with a monopolised, never changing, old technology that would be overpriced and forced down people’s throats for as long as an industry would stomach it.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
Why ENOUGH?

Because, shoulda, woulda, coulda won't change what is so.

Because if you depend on the resale value of something you buy to be stable, you're misimformed.

Because constant whining, bitching and expounding on how the world changed and didnt dare to ask you, is annoying, pointless and has nothing to do with business.

Thats why, ENOUGH.

If you dont like that reality, dont read it.
Click to expand...


I think this is a more of a shock to some than others... As video cameras never had any really long life cycles, just as computers. Film gear and film cameras on the other hand have had super long life cycles.

A few examples....
Im from the post side of things where that 1million dollar SGI machine I bought 8 years back was tossed in the trash 4 years back... And that D6 Woodoo HD deck that cost me 200K USD never even became a standard... even though it was the most promising HD tape format and the only one that was uncompressed. Also I bought a old milo 10 years back... it was then about 10 years old, I paid a bit more for it than a new system would have cost, today 20 years old I would get more for it than what I paid if I wanted to sell it... The milo came with a Mitchell camera that I think took part in the vietnam war... Still until today that camera is one of the most precise 35mm film cameras... Luckily I sold it in time before film died..

So basically, most rental houses or people that invested in cranes, dollies, lenses, lights and such have not seen much rapid price drops on their investments. I think those guys find it a bit hard. The Arri 435 had a super long life cycle... the same rental houses having the 435's now bought quite a few alexa's, red one and epic's... I have no doubt that many of them have calculated for a longer life time for these digital cine cameras.

Just look at a alexa, it's built like one of those mobile phones from the early 80's, something made with german military standards. The truth is that most of these cameras will be used so little before they are outdated so that they might as well just have made them in plastic like a handy cam... I think that is the truth for many redone's, scarlets and epic's as well unfortunately. But epic with it's plastic side grip and other more consumer looking parts is accutally more accurate as I doubt that any of us will shoot with these cameras in 5 years time, then they will all feel like commodore 64 (epic) and VIC20 (scarlet) :)
 
One of my favorite George Carlin quotes about driving mentality (paraphrased): "everyone going slower than you is an idiot, anyone going faster is a maniac".

When RED's disruptive technology gave us opportunities we loved disruption, when the now disrupted industry re-calibrated it changed asset recovery periods.

You can't have it both ways.

Cheers - #19
 
It's funny how the topicstarter has vanished from this conversation entirely
 
James T Mather said:
Yeah, the old four perf Mitchell. I remember carrying one up a mountain. The thing was so dense it generated it's own gravity.

Also you needed a degree in origami to lace it up.
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Jupp, when I saw the F65 all I could think was... that looks and weights just like the mitchell, We had the mag on top that did not make things much easier.:) somebody in hollywood bought it for quite a bit of money 3 years back... Do not know for what usage, it had a mark roberts motor on it so I can not imagine he could drive it without rebuilding it quite a bit... getting a bit sentimental now... last time I actually touched celluloid with my bare hands was when I offloaded the last roll out of that beast... it's a bit different than hitting the eject button on the touch screen.
 
One protocol I miss with film is the way everyone snapped to attention when the camera rolled - silver is running through the gate. Pay attention everybody. Now it's like the cameraman says in Boogie Nights "Nah it's video, it's cheap, you just keep rolling". I've noticed a lot of slacking of on-set attention since we went digital. People don't focus as well as they did because we can just roll again.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Jupp, when I saw the F65 all I could think was... that looks and weights just like the mitchell, We had the mag on top that did not make things much easier.:) somebody in hollywood bought it for quite a bit of money 3 years back... Do not know for what usage, it had a mark roberts motor on it so I can not imagine he could drive it without rebuilding it quite a bit... getting a bit sentimental now... last time I actually touched celluloid with my bare hands was when I offloaded the last roll out of that beast... it's a bit different than hitting the eject button on the touch screen.
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The Mitchell was the go-to camera for plate work with the four perf. I always got the impression it could survive a nuke blast.
 
James T Mather said:
One protocol I miss with film is the way everyone snapped to attention when the camera rolled - silver is running through the gate. Pay attention everybody. Now it's like the cameraman says in Boogie Nights "Nah it's video, it's cheap, you just keep rolling". I've noticed a lot of slacking of on-set attention since we went digital. People don't focus as well as they did because we can just roll again.
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I agree. I for one would actually a lot of times like to have a high tone beep when camera is turned on and off. would work for poor sound sync and also it would make people shut the F up between the "start signal" and the "done signal". Having the First AD scream "camera is rolling" and just waste 5 second of 5k 3:1 on each take is shit...

Annother thing would be to make the camera speak, maybe it's going to far but having an option of having the camera able to scream "take A001C023" right when the red light goes on would keep that stupid clap away and would make the script lady keep track of the actuall takes names instead of making up her own on the clap... wasting yet more of the 5k 3:1 while holding up the clap infront of the camera and clapping it on a mute take.. :)
 
James T Mather said:
One protocol I miss with film is the way everyone snapped to attention when the camera rolled - silver is running through the gate. Pay attention everybody. Now it's like the cameraman says in Boogie Nights "Nah it's video, it's cheap, you just keep rolling". I've noticed a lot of slacking of on-set attention since we went digital. People don't focus as well as they did because we can just roll again.
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Totally true.... But with 5K 6:1 Slowmo it generates so much data i try to explain people that keeping the film discipline is still a good thing :) saves hard drive space, render time and edit time, so still enough benefits to keep it tight :)
 
Yeah, the crews I work with are dyed-in-the-wool film guys who still keep the standards up. Directors from time to time I've noticed get impatient or want to keep it rolling while they chat to actors for three minutes while we shoot the back of their neck. Hey, it's their shoot, they can do what they want but with the tight controls on film there was less of this let's-just-shoot-the-rehersal-even-though-we've-no-focus-marks-or-idea-what-the-actors-are-doing thing.

But, hey, we've all got to adapt. Life in the new world.
 
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