FCPX vs RCX image diference

[Sabovic Adis]

Change your RCXP settings from IPP2 to Legacy and set Color and Gamma to "Dragon Color 2/Red Gamma 4", they'll match then. Hopefully. :smile5:

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I am no colorist, but I have friends that are. From what I have been told and experienced, the LUT is a like a box, and you want to make sure that the corrections you make to the clip don't exceed the limits of that box, so to speak. To experience this, put the LUT first in the signal chain, and then add some corrections. Look at the result. Then drag the corrections so that they appear in the inspector above the LUT and you will see a dramatic difference. I think of it like stomp boxes in an electric guitar rig. If you put the distortion before the reverb, the reverb (or delay) will act on the distorted guitar signal equally. But if you reverse them, (because the distortion is volume dependent) you will get a very different result. The reverb unit (or delay) creates the delayed signal at a lower volume, so once it hits the distortion you will have a distorted main signal and a less distorted delay signal, which may, or may not be what you want.

Just to comment about FCPX 10.4 and LUTs, when you apply Camera LUT it will be first in the processing chain. you can choose to use this as your starting point but just keep in mind that if the LUT creates clipping that will be unrecoverable during color correction whereas grading underneath the camera LUT will allow you to recover. If you have a well exposed shot that is intended for the LUT this may not be an issue and will probably be fine to grade post LUT. YMMV.

Thanks both.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I'm running FCPX 10.3.4 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. For the FCPX 10.4 I'll need to install the latest OS X which I do not want at the moment.

But let me re-post my needs: I just want to be able to see the same image "look" (color saturation, WB, contrast, etc) both inside the FCPX and RCX, so I can grade in RCX using all the RAW tools and get the updated image appearance inside FCPX from where I will export the master file. So my real need is not a fast LUT grading, but a consistent result across both platforms.
Right now, when I finish the grade inside RCX (with a very appealing image), it is really "dull" in FCPX, which means I need to further grading it inside FCPX :-(

So, how can I make this cross-grading between the two apps work well?

Rui you should really try and upgrade to 10.4. Lots of great red improvement stuff there.

 

[Dustin Hoye]

Rui you should really try and upgrade to 10.4. Lots of great red improvement stuff there.

+1 here. 10.4+ versions offer a tremendous upgrade for color, amongst other things.

*Plus, you can always create a favorite effect(s) stack of effects, that places the LUT effect at the bottom of that applicable stack, to avoid forgetting to move it down to the bottom of the chain. This is extremely handy.

One other thing- don't apply it via the inspector/LUT option- this would apply it to the 'top' of your chain. Use the effect.

Oh- depending on where you store your media, FCPX can/will create it's own RMD at times, just just be aware of that too, when going back and forth between RCX and FCPX, depending on your media locations.

D

 

[andrewhake]

Is it on Apple or Red to change the Apple Workflow plugin so the 'Modify Red Raw Settings' popup matches the IPP2 settings as seen in Redcine-X? Makes for some additional confusion I think at the moment. Might be worth while for Red to do an updated FCPX workflow video that can be used as a base for new users.

 

[Rui Guerra]

Is it on Apple or Red to change the Apple Workflow plugin so the 'Modify Red Raw Settings' popup matches the IPP2 settings as seen in Redcine-X? Makes for some additional confusion I think at the moment. Might be worth while for Red to do an updated FCPX workflow video that can be used as a base for new users.

+1. That will be very helpful.

 

[Rui Guerra]

(...)

*Plus, you can always create a favorite effect(s) stack of effects, that places the LUT effect at the bottom of that applicable stack, to avoid forgetting to move it down to the bottom of the chain. This is extremely handy.

One other thing- don't apply it via the inspector/LUT option- this would apply it to the 'top' of your chain. Use the effect.

(...)

D

Just to comment about FCPX 10.4 and LUTs, when you apply Camera LUT it will be first in the processing chain. you can choose to use this as your starting point but just keep in mind that if the LUT creates clipping that will be unrecoverable during color correction whereas grading underneath the camera LUT will allow you to recover. If you have a well exposed shot that is intended for the LUT this may not be an issue and will probably be fine to grade post LUT. YMMV.

Although some people say that LUT should always be at the top of the inspector, it looks like that could lead to some problems/cliping (my footage was not shoot with LUT's use in mind).

Had I understood this correctly? So the best practice is to ALWAYS use the LUT only as an effect applied to the clips in the timeline and never as a LUT load in Inspector?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Although some people say that LUT should always be at the top of the inspector, it looks like that could lead to some problems/cliping (my footage was not shoot with LUT's use in mind).

Had I understood this correctly? So the best practice is to ALWAYS use the LUT only as an effect applied to the clips in the timeline and never as a LUT load in Inspector?

Well, I think it varies from user to user. I use a Weapon Helium which displays the ipp2 look I choose on a project. I like to shoot with the lut i’m aiming for so that I control it and “see” what the end image will approximately be. If its well exposed and balanced, this gives me a much speedier time in post with only minor tweaks needed to my images. Of course I’m not shooting highly stylized films with blockbuster teal and orange looks.

Bottom line, its a matter of one’s preference.

 

[Scot Yount]

+1 here. 10.4+ versions offer a tremendous upgrade for color, amongst other things.

*Plus, you can always create a favorite effect(s) stack of effects, that places the LUT effect at the bottom of that applicable stack, to avoid forgetting to move it down to the bottom of the chain. This is extremely handy.

One other thing- don't apply it via the inspector/LUT option- this would apply it to the 'top' of your chain. Use the effect.

Oh- depending on where you store your media, FCPX can/will create it's own RMD at times, just just be aware of that too, when going back and forth between RCX and FCPX, depending on your media locations.

D

This is all great advice. Good Post.

 

[Scot Yount]

Is it on Apple or Red to change the Apple Workflow plugin so the 'Modify Red Raw Settings' popup matches the IPP2 settings as seen in Redcine-X? Makes for some additional confusion I think at the moment. Might be worth while for Red to do an updated FCPX workflow video that can be used as a base for new users.

Neither. The settings shown in the new RCX are by default IPP2 REDWideGammutRGB and Log3G10. Mine always show up with medium contrast and medium rolloff, even though in camera I usually set low contrast and very soft rolloff. You can change to Legacy if you want to. The Apple plugin reads the metadata from the file as shot. This is the case on all .r3ds. I have a Helium Weapon and trusty old Scarlet-MX, and the FCPX plugin (built by RED) and whatever settings I had in camera are what show up in the plugin as they should.

Edit: I should add to this that you don't really need RCX, especially if you update FCPX to 10.4 (unless you are going to make proxies with settings that RCX has like DEB and Alchemy and the like). I myself do use RCX to change some of the metadata like white balance and tint on my footy before I bring it into FCPX, simply because I can use the white balance tool in there on charts more easily. After that I can always change the metadata with the plugin inside FCPX if desired. Anyway, I then make proxies from the flat images for my edit.

 

[andrewhake]

Neither. The settings shown in the new RCX are by default IPP2 REDWideGammutRGB and Log3G10. Mine always show up with medium contrast and medium rolloff, even though in camera I usually set low contrast and very soft rolloff. You can change to Legacy if you want to. The Apple plugin reads the metadata from the file as shot. This is the case on all .r3ds. I have a Helium Weapon and trusty old Scarlet-MX, and the FCPX plugin (built by RED) and whatever settings I had in camera are what show up in the plugin as they should.

Edit: I should add to this that you don't really need RCX, especially if you update FCPX to 10.4 (unless you are going to make proxies with settings that RCX has like DEB and Alchemy and the like). I myself do use RCX to change some of the metadata like white balance and tint on my footy before I bring it into FCPX, simply because I can use the white balance tool in there on charts more easily. After that I can always change the metadata with the plugin inside FCPX if desired. Anyway, I then make proxies from the flat images for my edit.

Gotcha. I am referring to the pop up that you get in FCPX when editing the R3D settings within FCPX. It still shows the FLUT control and other legacy settings that are no longer in Red cine when using IPP2. This is just me testing with the R3D files that Red provides on their site though. Maybe the clips I am testing with weren't shot with IPP2 mode in camera.

 

[Scot Yount]

Gotcha. I am referring to the pop up that you get in FCPX when editing the R3D settings within FCPX. It still shows the FLUT control and other legacy settings that are no longer in Red cine. This is just me testing with the R3D files that Red provides on their site though.

Those controls are still in REDCINE I think...but you have to go back to Legacy settings to use them I think...

Edit: Legacy is available if you go to preferences and choose it under image pipeline....

 

[andrewhake]

Those controls are still in REDCINE I think...but you have to go back to Legacy settings to use them I think...

Edit: Legacy is available if you go to preferences and choose it under image pipeline....

Ah I see so the metadata in the file is all still there even if something was shot in IPP2? I just think it would be nice if the RED RAW Settings controls would change in FCPX the way they change in Red-cine when you are using IPP2 as your pipeline in both. So FLUT Control would just be shown as Exposure and so on. It does all seem to work the same in the end it seems though.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t3lw32mca37mz9b/R3DControls_IPP2.png?dl=0

Actually I don't really understand why everything in Red-Cine can't just match in FCPX? Why the need to apply the specific LUT? Couldn't that just be applied as an output transform the same way? So people can choose their contrast and highlight roll off settings directly in FCPX as well?

 

[Scot Yount]

Actually I don't really understand why everything in Red-Cine can't just match in FCPX? Why the need to apply the specific LUT? Couldn't that just be applied as an output transform the same way? So people can choose their contrast and highlight roll off settings directly in FCPX as well?

Because REDCINE is a program that processes the files that are written by the camera. The default setting in REDCINE is IPP2 with a medium contrast, medium roll off. The files it is reading are not changed by anything in this config. You can change white balance and tint and the like, and those settings will be saved to the sidecar files that go with the .r3ds. That file still retains the original settings of the file as written by the camera however. Final Cut Pro X is also a program that is processing the files that were written by the camera. Using the RED plugin, just like REDCINE, you can change some settings and those get saved to the "sidecar" file as well, and the original camera settings are also available as well. IPP2 is not fully implemented in FCPX, so you are not getting all of the good stuff yet, but for the most part, it works pretty well. The difference is that in REDCINE, the LUT is being applied by the default settings when using IPP2. In FCPX, you have to apply the lut separately. Make sense?

Edit: If the OP were to grade his stuff in RCX and bake some ProRes files, than bring those into FCPX, his look from REDCINE would be retained. Nothing you select or adjust in the Post Image Effects panel of RCX and below is retained, unless you burn some ProRes.

Edit: Crap. One more thing. You can pick that rolloff and contrast setting in FCPX, by choosing a LUT that matches your choices.

 

[andrewhake]

Because REDCINE is a program that processes the files that are written by the camera. The default setting in REDCINE is IPP2 with a medium contrast, medium roll off. The files it is reading are not changed by anything in this config. You can change white balance and tint and the like, and those settings will be saved to the sidecar files that go with the .r3ds. That file still retains the original settings of the file as written by the camera however. Final Cut Pro X is also a program that is processing the files that were written by the camera. Using the RED plugin, just like REDCINE, you can change some settings and those get saved to the "sidecar" file as well, and the original camera settings are also available as well. IPP2 is not fully implemented in FCPX, so you are not getting all of the good stuff yet, but for the most part, it works pretty well. The difference is that in REDCINE, the LUT is being applied by the default settings when using IPP2. In FCPX, you have to apply the lut separately. Make sense?

Edit: If the OP were to grade his stuff in RCX and bake some ProRes files, than bring those into FCPX, his look from REDCINE would be retained. Nothing you select or adjust in the Post Image Effects panel of RCX and below is retained, unless you burn some ProRes.

Edit: Crap. One more thing. You can pick that rolloff and contrast setting in FCPX, by choosing a LUT that matches your choices.

Yep yep definitely makes sense. Appreciate the explanation and hope the full implementation of IPP2 will be finished soon, will be nice to just have the LUT applied and have a even simpler workflow.

 

[Dustin Hoye]

This is all great advice. Good Post.

Thanks Scot!

Also, may be outside the concerns for the OP, but key to note that the downsampling (Software scaling) for 4K+ > i.e. 1080p, etc has also improved over last update for Red RAW assets in FCPX. I pay very close attention to this, with side by sides out of RCX, whenever I am processing and editing my R3Ds between the two pieces of software. This last version of FCPX is much closer to Lanzcos3, albeit still, ever so slightly softer, than RCX.

Cheers,
D

 

[Rui Guerra]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the inputs. I have gone the OS X High Sierra / FCPX 10.4 upgrade route and very happy with the results. Those color grading wheels in FCPX are indeed a great improvement.

Cheers,

 

[Scot Yount]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the inputs. I have gone the OS X High Sierra / FCPX 10.4 upgrade route and very happy with the results. Those color grading wheels in FCPX are indeed a great improvement.

Cheers,

Awesome. Mark Spencer over at Ripple Training has an awesome tutorial on all those new color controls...