FCPX vs RCX image diference

[Rui Guerra]

Hi all,

I'm grading a documentary and found that inside FCPX the image is much less saturated and with less contrast then the original in RCX.
I have looked at it in Mac's Finder and the preview is the same as shown in RCX, so it looks like FCPX is changing something.

And this is using View>Original in FCPX, and the Modify RAW Setings was made to "Revert to original settings".

As you can see, inside FCPX, the RAW setting look unchanged are similar than the ones in RCX.

Please see the comparation, side by side (at left is the FCPX and to the right the RCX version) at this link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iew9b04bo5jbb4o/FCPX vs RCX.png?dl=0

I need to be able to see the same thing in both apps. Any suggestion?

Many thanks!

 

[Sergio Perez]

There are a couple of steps you need to do prior to make Ipp2 work in FCPX.

1-
First, download the ipp2 luts that are at red.com downloads page. Save them on a folder that you wont change much.

2-After that, open fcpx. Import the red media. The Red files should be in Redwidegamut and bt1886 for the gamma. You want it to be in log310 or something ( sorry am not on the computer and dont remember the correct numbers).

3- when you click on the file on the fcpx media browser, select info. Viewing option advanced, there should be a new option called lut. Import the Lut folder.

You should be able to now apply the ipp2 luts at the media.

You can batch lut them. But you need to do 2 steps:

1st-select all red media and in “info”, select modify red media. Change it to redlog film and log3”something”. All clips should be in that gamma and color space.

2- select all clips and go to info, lut , and you will apply that lut to all files. Sorry for not putting the correct names but am on the phone. Hope this helps!

 

[Rui Guerra]

Hey Sergio,

Thanks for the fast answer. But don't find the "Lut option" you mentioned inside FCPX. After choosing a clip in the browser, I've gone to the Info and the viewing is set to "Extended". But still no "lut" line inside it.

Can you be more specific?

Thanks!

 

[Scot Yount]

Rui, what version of FCPX are you on. 10.4 is where you want to be. Like Sergio said, you can batch the LUTs in the way that he describes, but if you are going to color further inside FCPX, you may want to apply the LUT effect to each clip on the timeline individually. I could be wrong, but I believe doing it the way Sergio says will make all your other color grading come after the LUT in the signal chain, which is not what you want. You want the LUT to be last. You CAN batch them in a way by copying the LUT effect (found in the effects browser) to one clip in the timeline, then highlight the clip, hit command C to copy, then select all the other clips and hit shift command V. Choose the options you want to copy to the rest of the clips. Make sense?

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Scot, sorry to hijack this thread but: is there an explanation why a LUT needs to go after the CC?

 

[Scot Yount]

Scot, sorry to hijack this thread but: is there an explanation why a LUT needs to go after the CC?

I am no colorist, but I have friends that are. From what I have been told and experienced, the LUT is a like a box, and you want to make sure that the corrections you make to the clip don't exceed the limits of that box, so to speak. To experience this, put the LUT first in the signal chain, and then add some corrections. Look at the result. Then drag the corrections so that they appear in the inspector above the LUT and you will see a dramatic difference. I think of it like stomp boxes in an electric guitar rig. If you put the distortion before the reverb, the reverb (or delay) will act on the distorted guitar signal equally. But if you reverse them, (because the distortion is volume dependent) you will get a very different result. The reverb unit (or delay) creates the delayed signal at a lower volume, so once it hits the distortion you will have a distorted main signal and a less distorted delay signal, which may, or may not be what you want.

 

[Scot Yount]

Hi all,

I'm grading a documentary and found that inside FCPX the image is much less saturated and with less contrast then the original in RCX.
I have looked at it in Mac's Finder and the preview is the same as shown in RCX, so it looks like FCPX is changing something.

And this is using View>Original in FCPX, and the Modify RAW Setings was made to "Revert to original settings".

As you can see, inside FCPX, the RAW setting look unchanged are similar than the ones in RCX.

Please see the comparation, side by side (at left is the FCPX and to the right the RCX version) at this link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iew9b04bo5jbb4o/FCPX vs RCX.png?dl=0

I need to be able to see the same thing in both apps. Any suggestion?

Many thanks!

Rui, upon looking closer at your dropbox deal, you have Dragon Color 2 and Red Gamma 4 selected in FCPX, and RCX, you have IPP2 Medium Contrast and Medium Rolloff. These two are very different. In FCPX, choose REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. You will then get a very flat image. As Sergio says, once you apply one of the LUTs, (medium and medium if that is the look you want) you will have a great place to start.

Edit: sorry, just noticed that the contrast you have chosen in RCX is low, not medium.

 

[Rui Guerra]

I'm running FCPX 10.3.4 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. For the FCPX 10.4 I'll need to install the latest OS X which I do not want at the moment.

But let me re-post my needs: I just want to be able to see the same image "look" (color saturation, WB, contrast, etc) both inside the FCPX and RCX, so I can grade in RCX using all the RAW tools and get the updated image appearance inside FCPX from where I will export the master file. So my real need is not a fast LUT grading, but a consistent result across both platforms.
Right now, when I finish the grade inside RCX (with a very appealing image), it is really "dull" in FCPX, which means I need to further grading it inside FCPX :-(

So, how can I make this cross-grading between the two apps work well?

 

[Scot Yount]

So, as previously described, change the gamma and color space inside FCPX to the same as you have it set in RCX, which is REDWideGammutRGB, Log3G10. Then apply the LUTs the way that Sergio describes. Unless you have made proxies, the color changes you make inside RCX will be reflected inside FCPX. Make sure the LUT you apply inside FCPX is the same one you are using in RCX, which according to your screen grab is low contrast, medium rolloff.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Just to comment about FCPX 10.4 and LUTs, when you apply Camera LUT it will be first in the processing chain. you can choose to use this as your starting point but just keep in mind that if the LUT creates clipping that will be unrecoverable during color correction whereas grading underneath the camera LUT will allow you to recover. If you have a well exposed shot that is intended for the LUT this may not be an issue and will probably be fine to grade post LUT. YMMV.

 

[Rui Guerra]

I apologize to repeat myself, but as I said: "I'm running FCPX 10.3.4 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. For the FCPX 10.4 I'll need to install the latest OS X which I do not want at the moment."

So, is there an alternative using FCPX 10.3.4?

 

[Scot Yount]

I apologize to repeat myself, but as I said: "I'm running FCPX 10.3.4 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. For the FCPX 10.4 I'll need to install the latest OS X which I do not want at the moment."

So, is there an alternative using FCPX 10.3.4?

Does 10.3.4 have no LUT ability? If not, do you have Color Finale?

 

[Rui Guerra]

Does 10.3.4 have no LUT ability? If not, do you have Color Finale?

I don't think FCPX 10.3.4 has any LUT ability inside (at least I didn't found it). No, I do not have/use Color Finale.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I don't think FCPX 10.3.4 has any LUT ability inside (at least I didn't found it). No, I do not have/use Color Finale.

You'll have to get this then.

https://www.colorgradingcentral.com/lututility/

 

[Rui Guerra]

Rui, upon looking closer at your dropbox deal, you have Dragon Color 2 and Red Gamma 4 selected in FCPX, and RCX, you have IPP2 Medium Contrast and Medium Rolloff. These two are very different. In FCPX, choose REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. You will then get a very flat image. As Sergio says, once you apply one of the LUTs, (medium and medium if that is the look you want) you will have a great place to start.

Edit: sorry, just noticed that the contrast you have chosen in RCX is low, not medium.

Scot,

If I choose REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10 inside FCPX, I'll get an even duller and flat image, that is, an even less similar look between what I see in RCX and FCPX.

Please remember that my issue is not the starting point for grading, or how fast I do it. My goal is to see the same image look inside both apps, so I can use some of the tools inside RCX and have the result reflected exactly the same way in FCPX (since both apps are using the RMD file to communicate the changes in both directions).

 

[Bob Gundu]

There are may settings in RCX you haven't mentioned. Go into preferences and let us know what your working with. Chances are the default curves settings are applied. Thos RED transform curves are what you need to apply in FCPX via LUTS.

 

[Jon Dishler]

Before 10.4 I used PixelFilm Studios LUT loader to apply on timeline. You need to first modify Red Raw settings in the information tab, to RWG/LOG3G10 from the default. Then apply the LUT which was downloaded as described by others. Bottom line, 10.4 is so much easier and better and faster -- if you can you should consider upgrading your OS and using it.

 

[Rui Guerra]

There are may settings in RCX you haven't mentioned. Go into preferences and let us know what your working with. Chances are the default curves settings are applied. Thos RED transform curves are what you need to apply in FCPX via LUTS.

Here are my RCX preferences:

 

[Bob Gundu]

Here are my RCX preferences:

Download a LUT utility as mentioned above and then install these RED LUTS to match RCX.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/red_3/downloads/LUTs/IPP2 Cubes SDR Core V1_13.zip

 

[Scot Yount]

Scot,

If I choose REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10 inside FCPX, I'll get an even duller and flat image, that is, an even less similar look between what I see in RCX and FCPX.

Please remember that my issue is not the starting point for grading, or how fast I do it. My goal is to see the same image look inside both apps, so I can use some of the tools inside RCX and have the result reflected exactly the same way in FCPX (since both apps are using the RMD file to communicate the changes in both directions).

Understood. But the only way to do that inside FCPX is do the settings I described earlier...and find a way to apply the LUT that is being applied in RCX to the footy in FCPX. That's the only way to get what you are looking for. As Jon Dishler suggests go to Pixel Film Studios website and download their free LUT loader. https://store.pixelfilmstudios.com/product/fcpx-lut-loader/