FCP and AJA iO HD- anyone using for monitor output?

[Sam Roberts]

I am new to FCP and new to AJA gear and am in the process of setting up my editing system.

I have a clip shot in 2k and transcoded to a quicktime movie scaled to 1920x1080 using the ProRes codec using Red Rushes.

I am outputting from the FCP timeline into the AJA iOHD and then through an HDMI cable to a new Panasonic 1080P plasma.

In FCP I have a sequence preset set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) and my video playback is set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.
In the FCP VIEW menu the settings are: external video all frames. Video playback AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.

The shots in the sequence properties are: size 1GB Vid rate 24fps frame size 1920x1080. Compressor Apple ProRes 422.

All shots on the timeline have been rendered

The problem is when I monitor the timeline output 1/3 of the screen is a black bar with the shot itself shoved over to the right of the screen with only the first 2/3 of the shot visible (see photo below)

If I switch the playback output to 1080i the picture becomes normal and it moves as I scrub, but I can't get any real time playback.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Uli Plank]

Not all screens like 1080p over HDMI. How does it look like if you play out of the Red One via HDMI?

 

[Olivier Madar]

I am new to FCP and new to AJA gear and am in the process of setting up my editing system.

I have a clip shot in 2k and transcoded to a quicktime movie scaled to 1920x1080 using the ProRes codec using Red Rushes.

I am outputting from the FCP timeline into the AJA iOHD and then through an HDMI cable to a new Panasonic 1080P plasma.

In FCP I have a sequence preset set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) and my video playback is set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.
In the FCP VIEW menu the settings are: external video all frames. Video playback AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.

The shots in the sequence properties are: size 1GB Vid rate 24fps frame size 1920x1080. Compressor Apple ProRes 422.

All shots on the timeline have been rendered

The problem is when I monitor the timeline output 1/3 of the screen is a black bar with the shot itself shoved over to the right of the screen with only the first 2/3 of the shot visible (see photo below)

If I switch the playback output to 1080i the picture becomes normal and it moves as I scrub, but I can't get any real time playback.

Any ideas? Thanks.

I used my Aja in exactly that way : hdmi output connected to a LCD screen and it works well for 1080p in the FCP timeline. The image was cropped using 2K. But since a few days, it doesn't work anymore, and I don't know why. When I send a test pattern to the LCD, it is pushed on the right (about 1/4 of the screen), and I don't have the playback anymore with FCP (no picture at all, nor in 1080p, either in 625i). Maybe Apple did an update and we have the same disease ?

 

[Sam Roberts]

My FCP is new out of the box last week as is the AJA io HD. The component out shows no pictures at all if I switch over to that output.

I could live with 1080i if I could get real time playback via the HDMI cable but every time I hit play the picture on the Plasma freezes at the frame I was on when I hit play. When I hit stop that (end) frame is shown. And, like I said when I SCRUB the timeline the picture moves.

Of all the research and purchase descisions I have made regarding the RED system it was the I/O decision that was the hardest as I have to edit and monitor everything from RED 4k to legacy Betacam SD. I'm still not sure I made the right move with the AJA ioHD but is was the only solution that provided all the in's and out's I needed. Such a pain in the ass. I remember when you bought a monitor, connected it to a BNC cable and it gave you a picture.

Maybe it is just not possible to see real time playback from the timeline at 1080 rez. Does anyone know?

 

[M Most]

In FCP I have a sequence preset set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) and my video playback is set to AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.
In the FCP VIEW menu the settings are: external video all frames. Video playback AJA iO HD 1080p 24 ProRes 422.

The shots in the sequence properties are: size 1GB Vid rate 24fps frame size 1920x1080. Compressor Apple ProRes 422.

Try using a 23.98 preset. Also try using an 23.98sF or 24sF video playback setting instead of 24p.

 

[Kevin Wild]

We found that our Sony Bravia 46" LCD would not support a 1080P, 23.98 signal from the Kona LHe. We switched the "View" to 720p and it plays fine and you cannot see a visible difference. You might want to try that...

Kevin

 

[Sam Roberts]

They said it might be a frames per second speed problem over at Creative Cow but a switch to 23.98 didn't work. I do get a full raster picture on the Panny using 720P, the only progressive format that seems to work. The problem is like 1080i, there is no real time playback...just a freeze up.I

The specs say it will display 1125x1080 60P/1125x1080 24P and 1280x1024@60 but I am not sure what they mean by this last one, it may be a computer resolution. I don't think any of the RED APPS do 1080x1125 do they? Maybe it is the slight difference between the 1080x1125 the TV will display and the 1920X1080 that RED's apps trancode to and what FCP settings are available that is causing the freeze up and the inability to properly display 1080P 23.98 ProRes 422 (1920x1080)

I have to say though even a frozen picture on the plasma is truly amazing. Panasonic makes a nice TV. Too bad I may have to put it in the bedroom and go buy an LCD. What are you guy's using?

 

[M Most]

They said it might be a frames per second speed problem over at Creative Cow but a switch to 23.98 didn't work. I do get a full raster picture on the Panny using 720P, the only progressive format that seems to work. The problem is like 1080i, there is no real time playback...just a freeze up.I

Consumer monitors often don't like professional formats, even though they might play a 24fps stream from, say, a BluRay disc. The professional monitors rarely have these limitations.

 

[James Press]

AJA support is excellent--could try asking them direct??

 

[Sam Roberts]

Yes I think I'll do that.

Funny, if I hook my BLU-RAY up to the plasma I have no problems at all with 1080P.

 

[Kaku Ito]

You probably have to do pull-down insertion (display as 29.97) in order to get the correct aspect ratio. So far Multibrdige Pro is the only one I've used and correctly display 23.976.

 

[Sam Roberts]

Not all screens like 1080p over HDMI. How does it look like if you play out of the Red One via HDMI?

I tried this awhile back and the camera froze and rebooted itself everytime I hooked it up to the plasma and turned it on. This was a common problem and there was a thread talking about this on here...don't know if anyone ever got it to work.

 

[Matthew Bennett]

Ahh, Toronto and Tokyo in the same thread, the internet warms my heart tonight..

I've had the same problem with the camera freezing when connected via hdmi....

 

[Olivier Madar]

My FCP is new out of the box last week as is the AJA io HD. The component out shows no pictures at all if I switch over to that output.

I could live with 1080i if I could get real time playback via the HDMI cable but every time I hit play the picture on the Plasma freezes at the frame I was on when I hit play. When I hit stop that (end) frame is shown. And, like I said when I SCRUB the timeline the picture moves.

Of all the research and purchase descisions I have made regarding the RED system it was the I/O decision that was the hardest as I have to edit and monitor everything from RED 4k to legacy Betacam SD. I'm still not sure I made the right move with the AJA ioHD but is was the only solution that provided all the in's and out's I needed. Such a pain in the ass. I remember when you bought a monitor, connected it to a BNC cable and it gave you a picture.

Maybe it is just not possible to see real time playback from the timeline at 1080 rez. Does anyone know?

Hi,

It has worked for me in the past : 1080p in the FCP, timeline 25 fps (Europe), and all on the LCD monitor through the hdmi. Even scrubbing was working. But today, I don't know why, it doesn't work anymore. I have sent an email to the Aja support and to Silverado (who sell me the Aja).

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Help me AJA, help help me , AJA, ...

Help me AJA, help help me , AJA, ...

Great thread. With the improved quality of the better consumer displays, and the attractive pricing mandated by the commodity market they are sold in, they are finding their way into the professional space at a rapid rate.

Unfortunately there are some gotchas where pro and sumer meet. I have two theories and I hope before this thread is done we will all know the real deal.

1) HDCP digital rights management protocols for copy protection may be the culprit, particularly when HDMI is involved. The way I understand it (which may be off base) is that there is a "handshake" between the source and the display that somehow determines that the content is being viewed but not copied. Perhaps this handshake protocol is to blame for camera shut downs?

2) AJA io/HD boxes are not sending flags the consumer monitors expect to see in order to "sync up" to one of the multitude of ATSC "standards" they are designed to support. BTW I had the same off center image issue with an Optoma HD80 projector that played 1080P from Blu-Ray off a PS3.

In a perfect world there would be a high bandwidth "agnostic" input on all monitors, be they professional or consumer targeted, be they computer or television targeted. In the meantime if you want HD-SDI inputs on your Panny plasma there is a bit of an upcharge inch: (around $3,000 for that little plug the last time I shopped it).

Digression alert:
Your local pro gear salesman likely has a line of malarkey about why the Panasonic PRO Plasma is worth so much more than the consumer version but see if he/she is willing to do a side by side test with the bezels masked and if they choose wrong you get the monitor free, if they choose right you pay full list price. If you can get your vendor to agree to this, please pass along their info :devil: .

 

[Sam Roberts]

1) HDCP digital rights management protocols for copy protection may be the culprit, particularly when HDMI is involved. The way I understand it (which may be off base) is that there is a "handshake" between the source and the display that somehow determines that the content is being viewed but not copied. Perhaps this handshake protocol is to blame for camera shut downs? .

Hi Blair. This might explain why many of us can't get a picture out of the camera itself and onto the Panny Plasma via HDMI. The camera just dies and reboots.

Now I CAN get a beautiful full raster image from FCP on the Panasonic if I switch to 1080i 29.97 I just can't get it to play back in real time although I can scrub it.

Also, you'd think that if the problem was HDMI related, I would be able to see a picture when I go component out from the iO HD to the TV but I get nothing with this setup.

 

[Kaku Ito]

Not so sure how you would set up in AJA products, but in FCP, keep the timeline as 23.976, and in AJA setup, set it up to convert 23.976 as 29.97 then HDMI with Panasonic should work, even it'll playback (with pulldown inserted).

 

[Sam Roberts]

Changing the playback frame rate in FCP doesn't fix the problem. I don't think it's the Panasonic because I plugged one of my Samsung computer monitors in and got the same problems. It is either the io HD or FCP itself or, it also may be the 24fps frame rate at which the clips on the time line were shot. I am going to do some camera tests today shooting at 23.98 and 29.97 and see if that fixes the problems.

 

[Kaku Ito]

Sam,

The nature of FCP with 23.976, you keep the frame rate of the project as 23.976, then set the hardware like Multibridge Pro, MXO2, MOTU V4HD to display as 29.97 then the hardware inserts pulldown frames (like 2:3:3:2) to make the 23.976 project display as 29.97. So you don't change the frame rate in FCP but IOHD's utility if there's any, there should be output conversion selection to output 23.976 signal as 29.97, try that out.

Implementation of HDMI is somewhat flaky, although panels accepts 23.976 from HDMI, not every video I/Os work with that specification. Blu-ray 23.976 are somewhat set (I think most of them do 23.976fps instead of 23.976p) so they can easily set to display 23.976, but I experienced that from above IOs I mentioned, so far only Multibridge Pro can actually display 23.976 correctly through HDMI with consumer panels. Matrox says they will make the MXO2 be able to do that on the next update.

 

[Sam Roberts]

Kaku,

What you say is basically what AJA support said to do. They suggested the following:

In FCP > Audio Video Settings, set the Video Playback to 1080i2997(non HQ)
also set the Primary Format of the Format tab in the IoHD Control Panel to
1080i2997, make sure on the HDMI tab it is set to Primary

In FCP > System Settings > Playback Control Tab > set RT to Safe > Video
Quality to High > Frame Rate to Full


This fixes the problem of the picture not being centered and allows movement when I scrub the timeline. However I am still not getting any real time playback off the timeline. Every time I hit play the picture freezes on both the Panasonic and the SD Sony Broadcast Monitor that is hooked up to the secondary (SD 525i) output of the io HD. It is almost as if FCP or my Mac Pro doesn't have the juice for full screen 1080 real time playback.

The trouble is we are dealing with for separate variables- the MAC Pro, FCP, the AJA io HD box and the Panasonic monitor.

Looks like the so-called "excellent" support at AJA has given up on the problem but I've got a few more things to try before I throw in the towel and of course, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.