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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

fast lenses or dragon sensor?

J

jorge krausch

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If the dragon sensor really is 2000 iso ... what is a better investment, a dragon sensor upgrade or fast primes? (1.2, 1.4 canons)
 
Hi Timur I'm in the same position my lens set is a nice set of leica r primes 6 lens set and a k35 zoom with 18 to 85 prime set of k35s speeds would you go with dragon or would you add say cp2 set or red pro prime set for me it's dragon +rrx or lens set don't know what is best could get dragon in 6 months or so if I buy a new lens set this kit is for rent so just want it out as much as possible thanks any advice would be great
 
Timur Civan said:
dragon. cause it turns every lens a stop faster......
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I'd say 2 stop faster. Jim said dragon 2000 asa is cleaner than mx 800, which means dragon 3200 would have acceptable noise levels.

What you shot with at 2.8 on MX, will now be closer to 1.4-1.8. I'd go with Dragon :)
 
I cannot really manage to see these two as comparable entities...

But I guess I am just silly.

Stops controll dof.

The new sensor controlls dr, it seems.

The new motion mount seems to controll the things you're asking for more than anything else.
 
Dragon should give us at least one extra stop of light but for those of us looking to use the motion mount I imagine things will even themselves out because of the one stop loss of the mount. Fast primes should be every cinematographer's arsenal regardless of the camera but to me the upgrade to Dragon is a no brainer.
 
I can almost guarantee a resurgence of slower glass with dragon and newer, more sensitive sensors. For people like me who hate shooting wide open, the prospect of this idea is quite good.
 
Doug Beatty said:
I for one am looking forward to shooting everything at 4 and above rather than 2.8. Most lenses perform better around 4-8 instead of wide open.
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Bingo, though you could run into being TOO sharp at 6K, but we'll see. I'd only shoot wide open if it's creatively suited, otherwise it's 2.8 or higher for my liking.
 
Doug Beatty said:
I for one am looking forward to shooting everything at 4 and above rather than 2.8. Most lenses perform better around 4-8 instead of wide open.
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"Perform better" what does this really mean? If the shot looks better wider open, use that. If it looks better with deeper DOF use that. Would you shoot a dialogue scene at f8 in order to be able to count more pixels later? Really?

Do people here really see "fast glass" as just a way to add more light stops? That's just nuts.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
"Perform better" what does this really mean? If the shot looks better wider open, use that. If it looks better with deeper DOF use that. Would you shoot a dialogue scene at f8 in order to be able to count more pixels later? Really?

Do people here really see "fast glass" as just a way to add more light stops? That's just nuts.
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All stops are not created equal. Lenses exhibit fringing or CA wide open, when you close down the aperture you are using the 'sweet spot' of the elements. Some people like that look, others like the ability to stop down and avoid it.

My point isn't that every shot should be at a 4, but rather when a setup calls for a 4 I have flexibility to do so with dragon and still get proper exposure with less noise.

Of course, you shoot the stop that makes the image best to your eye. Heck, strap on a lensbaby and go to town for all I care. Whatever shot you are happy with is the one you go with at the end of the day.
 
But... Noone has said where those stops fall.

I seriously hope at least one, I'd hope two, go into the highlights and not into the shadows.
Yup.

I know I am probably alone on that. Or at least a bit lonely in that corner.
But the diff between MX and Alexa is an ND .6 for me.
And that is a lot of image distortion and ND degradation avoided on the A.

Hopefully the motionmount will take care of those issues to some extent. But DR is not ALL about "seeing in the dark". It is about... Range from lowest to highest stop. (Surprise!)

Thus, you can have a 16 stop cam that has middlegray at ISO 50 (which I seem to need more often than one with middle grey at ISO 2000)
With "middle grey" in this context, I am not refering to the Digital term that it is "wherever you choose to put it", but the middle grey as the grey where you have the same amount of stops available above and below that point...

I still would take fast lenses. NOT to shoot wide open at all times, but to have a wider option of DOF characteristics...

It isn't really a case of either/or...
 
Doug Beatty said:
I for one am looking forward to shooting everything at 4 and above rather than 2.8. Most lenses perform better around 4-8 instead of wide open.
Click to expand...

True, for optimum resolution and clarity, yes stopping down makes sense, if that's what you are going for. It's also a creative choice. Stopping down and having deeper depth of field was once more popular in our industry. For a myriad of reasons, this approach seems to have lost favor, and is frequently challenged (and replaced) by more "shallow" choices. Presumably, as multi-cam shoots are also becoming more en-vogue, this "shallowness" is giving editorial less to worry about w/ continuity (as the backgrounds are out of focus anyway).

Shervin Mandgaryan said:
Bingo, though you could run into being TOO sharp at 6K, but we'll see. I'd only shoot wide open if it's creatively suited, otherwise it's 2.8 or higher for my liking.
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I agree; I'm curious how sharp 6k is going to look. But I'm also excited at the thought 6k may give "soft choices" more snap, as 6K downscaled to 1080p is most likely going to give us a level of detail we haven't seen before (except with Monochrome).

Speaking of…can you imagine what Monochrome Dragon will look like?!!!
 
It's funny, the more and more pixels we shoot with, the more we go hunting for filters or lenses to make the image softer. Either way, having 6K on tap is a huge benefit any way you look at it.

6K is IMAX / 70mm territory as Jim put it a while back. We have to shoot and pick our optics accordingly :)
 
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