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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

F5/55

Mark L. Pederson said:
I think Jim / Jarred should NOT pass all the price reduction to the EPIC brain. Split the difference EPIC brain and Meizler Module. The more Meizler Modules out there working - the faster EPIC gains further traction - the more brains they will sell. Meizler is a steal IMO at $13K - given all of it's features - but if RED has wiggle room on pricing - IMO they should lower EPIC less than they plan - and lower the Meizler Module a bit more. OR ... offer a price reduced bundle - new EPIC + Meizler Module bundle for XXX$$ - just thinking out loud here.
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+1000000000
 
+1 .....

Mark L. Pederson said:
My initial reactions are:

They should admit the F65 is DOA instead of calling it the "flagship" of the line. Clearly, the F55 is the flagship camera of their 4K lineup and no rental house is going to buy new F65s as opposed to F55. Sony will most likely "force" adoption of the remaining F65 stock by making a few deals with key rental houses - buy X number of F55s and we will throw in a couple F65s, etc.

1080p acquisition for cinema and high end episodic television is going to die a quick death in 2013. The ALEXA stranglehold on episodic television is about to be disrupted. This is a good thing - as it gets folks to open their minds - and TEST instead of choosing a camera "because everyone else uses it". It amazes me how defensive and passionate people are about the tools they use without even testing alternatives.

IMO the Meizler Module is MUCH more important to the success of EPIC than the Dragon sensor. And while a price reduction will certainly help sell more cameras - Meizler Module really makes the EPIC system a different camera. It's not just proxy recording - it's a bunch of other meta-data workflow feature advantages RED isn't even talking about yet.

Studios and networks realizing that they need 4K+ digital negative - and that there isn't just one choice of a camera system to acquire in 4K is good thing. Sony has a lot of muscle - and they have the ability to mandate productions using specific camera systems - that is exactly what happened with JERSEY GIRL - which was mandated to shoot F65 (and cancelled after only two episodes aired).

This industry has always been filled with "preservationists". People have made movies the same way for DECADES. Most decision makers in the biz avoid risk as they don't want their jobs as there is always a long line of folks who will cut off a leg just to work in the business of show-business. So ... perception of a camera system is actually more powerful than price or features. The perception of RED's camera system has suffered for many reasons IMO, some could be avoided or changed - some - are just a result of being a disruptive, rebel start-up.

Personally, I would love to see every showrunner in the business testing the F55 and also EPIC + Meizler Module in early Q1 of next year.
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RayFrisby said:
Sony has really upped their game, all thanks to Red,
These cameras have a Wow factor and borrow heavily from both Red and Arri.

I think Sony has nailed the workflow options, and ergonomically it looks like it
has the edge on all cameras on the market at present.
So simple really; shoulder mount, an easy attach recorder, new modular battery system,
removable audio option, without having to add any plates or mounts.
If the image lives up to the rest of the specs, and the pricing is right they will sell
a lot of these.
One positive for Red is they have a narrow window to readjust the balance.
The camera will be available in Feb 2013. IMO Red needs to get the Pro Res - DNxHD -Cineform
and Mini Audio Module out ASAP, reduce Red Media and Accessory prices (if possible)
and get their own codec out there before Feb.
A tall order ? not for Red.
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Excellent post...I assume RED have a master plan to combat new competition, it's what they do so well. In my opinion RED will release a new camera in 2013. But luckily for owners like us they will provide an upgrade path of some sorts, where components can move down-the-line to Scarlet owners while we move up to next class.

If Monstro is truly a super-sensor that would be logical choice for RED to package a new, top-tier item. A camera for the ages with more features built-in like ND, Pro Res capabilities and better cooling properties; plus a sensor the competition wish they brought first to market.

RED is a lot smarter than myself so I'll just prepare and react-positively.
 
Let's be honest here. This will be a VERY good camera. But consider this:

1. The F55 can't record raw internally. You have to buy an add on recorder for 10K (and you won't be able to use a 3rd party recorder it seems...)
2. According to Phillip bloom this camera is 50K for the body alone... unless he is pulling the wool over our eyes, this camera is priced in the Alexa range, not he Epic range.
3. It does an amazing 14 stops of latitude (yes it is amazing... however dragon is 16+)

The best thing about this camera is the global shutter, and the high frame rates with no cropping. This will certainly be a successful camera. But it is all new product hype for now until we see solid prices, footage, specs and comparisons.

Food for thought.
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Let's be honest here. This will be a VERY good camera. But consider this:

1. The F55 can't record raw internally. You have to buy an add on recorder for 10K (and you won't be able to use a 3rd party recorder it seems...)
2. According to Phillip bloom this camera is 50K for the body alone... unless he is pulling the wool over our eyes, this camera is priced in the Alexa range, not he Epic range.
3. It does an amazing 14 stops of latitude (yes it is amazing... however dragon is 16+)

The best thing about this camera is the global shutter, and the high frame rates with no cropping. This will certainly be a successful camera. But it is all new product hype for now until we see solid prices, footage, specs and comparisons.

Food for thought.
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To get some of the features that the F5/F55 has... the Epic or Scarlet would need a Pro I/O Module and at least a Sound Devices Pix 240 or Meizler module. So the 10k for the sony raw recorder is not that bad of a price in relation to needing those extra items for the epic and scarlet.
 
M Most said:
The use of the F65 on that show was not "mandated", although it was "strongly suggested." .
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Gotti never mandated - he only "strongly suggested".

Regardless - the DP tested instead of just going Alexa. That's a good thing - just sad it takes a "strong suggestion" just to have another camera system considered ...
 
Andrae Palmer said:
To get some of the features that the F5/F55 has... the Epic or Scarlet would need a Pro I/O Module and at least a Sound Devices Pix 240 or Meizler module. So the 10k for the sony raw recorder is not that bad of a price in relation to needing those extra items for the epic and scarlet.
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I am pretty certain that there will be a cheap prores module coming for Epic... it has been a long time coming...

But yes, the F55 seems to have a few more ports than Epic on it. Though I can't seem to spot any XLR module... maybe I am looking at the wrong photos...
 
Ivan Kovax said:
I am pretty certain that there will be a cheap prores module coming for Epic... it has been a long time coming...

But yes, the F55 seems to have a few more ports than Epic on it. Though I can't seem to spot any XLR module... maybe I am looking at the wrong photos...
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I saw a pic of the XLR module somewhere... the real killer though is RAW + video recording and no cropping on the sensor.
 
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It's a removable box for the XLR plugs
 
Andrae Palmer said:
I saw a pic of the XLR module somewhere... the real killer though is RAW + video recording and no cropping on the sensor.
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Yeah, I like the non-cropping deal too. I rarely reach frame rates where i need to crop due to rez anyway. Still Andrae... if it is really gonna be 60K... (body plus RAW module) damn...

You know, I have a feeling this is going to be the new Alexa, if you know what I mean.
 
Greg M said:
I agree 100% with this. The Meizler is a critical missing link in the Epics long term success.
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Agree totally + ALSO THE REQUIRED EXTRA BITS (SYNC BOX, ETC.) TO MAKE THE MEIZLER WORK AWESOME + MEIZLER COMPATIBILITY WITH PRESTON, ARRI, SCORPIO, RT, BARTECH, ETC.

I apologize for the caps -- the Meizler is super important and requires an ecosystem of other pieces to work... all of which cost more money, etc.

Glad to see you and Mark chiming in here!!
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Yeah, I like the non-cropping deal too. I rarely reach frame rates where i need to crop due to rez anyway. Still Andrae... if it is really gonna be 60K... (body plus RAW module) damn...

You know, I have a feeling this is going to be the new Alexa, if you know what I mean.
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I highly doubt the F55 50K price tag as this would encroach F65 territory...
 
The electronic Global Shutter is a HUGE deal. I think these cameras are very well positioned and spec'd. Though we still continue to only be getting S35 size sensors. The ALEXA is still the only camera out there with a full-app chip for true anamorphic lenses...
 
Adrian Jebef said:
The electronic Global Shutter is a HUGE deal. I think these cameras are very well positioned and spec'd. Though we still continue to only be getting S35 size sensors. The ALEXA is still the only camera out there with a full-app chip for true anamorphic lenses...
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I really hope that this is what the next gen of cameras are all about. Large sensors and global shutters...
 
Probably the biggest thing to take note of for those on REDUSER is the F5/F55's ability to record different formats/resolutions both internally/externally and at the same time. This is true flexibility. These cameras will save a HUGE amount of time for those on set and in post.
 
Adrian - true. Just something I heard on Phillip Bloom's blog.

Bob, great points by Mitch. To bring it back to Red - the Sony RAW module is supposed to be ready between April-May... one would hope that Red has a ProRes/DNxHD module capable of 4K ready by then too. The power consumption of the camera is what really impresses me. If this camera comes in around the 20-30K mark, I think I will probably get one, simply cause I know it will rent like hotcakes from the time the raw module arrives till the end of next year.

I noticed one strange thing. the F5 has a 2000ISO sensitivity, while the F55 has a 1250ISO rating... whats the deal with that? Is it due to the global shutter you think?

In the end, the F55 will be very closely specced to Epic Dragon for 4K delivery
 
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