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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
C'mon guys, it won't be never. You can see already what they're wringing out of Epic. And Blind Freddie can see that the Epic and Scarlet's are going to leave any DSLR in the dust.

But if you have shoots to shoot and jobs to complete, you need to have a camera. I'm limping along with my DSLR and waiting. If Red's products weren't worth waiting for, weren't so much better than what's currently out there, none of us would be on this forum wasting our time. We'd be shooting on our Canons and Nikons etc and not even concerned about what Red are doing. But we are and that says all we need to say.

When we finally get hold of our Scarlets and Epics we will all be only too happy to put our current DSLRs on eBay. Stop complaining, get shooting and ... watch this space.
 
Cogent analysis Jason. Although it is in a sense a 2/3" video camera, attaching that ID to Scarlet was a mistake IMO, as it doesn't distinguish its market position as a digital cinema vs HD video camera enough.
They should rename it D16 as its 2:1 3k image width is close to 16mm camera aperture and a bit larger than HD 2/3" video sensor and it is a focal plane sensor vs 3-chip. The D16 name works with S35 model format designation better too. I think it would give Scarlet a fresh start when it is released and emphasize its unique full resolution 2k digital cinema capability.
 
I didn't had the time to read every post here but I leave MHO here anyway.

One more in favor of a nearby release although I would happily pay 1k bucks for a later HDR upgrade if necessary
 
I'm one of the original DVXUser types, and I identify with much of what Jason just said. It sounds like truth to me, the way I lived it. I tend to think that my experiences with this are typical, so I offer them up for consideration as such.

The moment that desktop editing offered a professional tool, I was all in. It would have been a hobby for me, save for the fact that the Price Tag meant that I would have to justify the outlay of cash. For me, this hobby would have to support itself. I took any work I could get. That meant hundreds of weddings, and for the most part that was fun.

During that ten or eleven years I brought as much professionalism to wedding work as I could muster. We worked in multi camera crews and refined our process while honing our documentary skills. We got into multi-camera sporting and music events and Single cam scripted drama. I still love it, though I am no longer interested in weddings, or nightclub shooting.

I support myself more through still photography than video these days, so while a 2/3 would allow me to pick up and shoot an event from time to time, that is not what I desire, or intend to do. My evolving skill set and the people around me have enabled me to work on projects that were renting gear, so I am becoming more familiar with a variety of professional and semi-pro tools. I wait for Scarlet s35 because I can.

I don't wish to be limited to deep focus anymore. I have always had the ability to change lenses and I won't sacrifice that. I want to get black... Way into black. I want resolution, because I am tired of working my ass off only to be disappointed at festivals when we project. I would love to be able to produce something that didn't have it's legs cut off for technical reasons.

I have resisted DSLR video because of it's limitations. I didn't want to invest in a lot of excessories for a temporary solution that didn't pass muster. Scarlet seemed to be nearing a release, and there simply was nothing else. I was happy to wait for it, but things are changing.

I jumped on the first pro NLE, and will do the same when a capable camera is available. I want Red to be that camera. If something comparable comes first, I can't say that I will have the fortitude or the interest to wait any longer. I am not alone.

Edit: If I could buy a Red One MX with a smart Canon mount off the shelf, I would do that within a month or two.
 
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I too think Jason summed it all up perfectly.

I'm really in the RED boat, I'm interested in investing in their products for the next years, hopefully decades.

But they really need to rethink their scheduling. The Scarlet S35 was originally poised to be coming out right now.

And we still have no idea when Scarlet 2/3 will even get a release date.

I also think that the D16 idea is a great one, and would probably help clear some of the confusion about which Scarlet is which.

In fact I think that they shouldn't both be called Scarlet. Give the 2/3 sensor a name and the S35 sensor another.
 
I was thinking of clear brand distinction between the little Scarlet as a high resolution raw camera and any encoded HD video camera regardless of sensor size. 1080p HD is the low end of Scarlet's resolution and format capability.
 
Curiously (to me) what hasn't been mentioned in these recent lengthy posts is the unique value of shooting RAW. IMO, you can take away virtually every other of Scarlet's terrific features and THAT is still worth a premium price. Until another camera offers that, I will remain firmly in the RED camp.
 
Thanks, Jason, Scott and others for representing the DVXusers and serious hobbyist to lower end pros who are interested in the Scarlet system. We're definitely a mixed bag, at different points in our individual journeys to scarlet-dom. But I think as a potential user base our numbers definitely overwhelm the high end cinema folks who would use Scarlet for b-roll, scouting, or (blasphemy) a crash cam!

I'm sure Jim et. al. know who we are. Hell, I remember when Jarred was a young pup at DVXuser, handling DVX battery sales and dispensing advice on supergluing the cases back together.

We want in on this system. We can plot its evolution and it is poised to dominate. I want to evolve with it. I don't want to waste my time and energy buying into a mongrel stub.

Regarding the D16 idea. I disagree. The digital generation has a hard enough time dealing with film carryover concepts like ISO, and WTF is that blade icon about? I'm sure there are some younger people who have gone to film school and heard about 16mm, but in the broader DVXuser crowd - even those that want to move up - I'm sure it doesn't ring a bell as far as look or history.
 
Steve Wake said:
Regarding the D16 idea. I disagree. The digital generation has a hard enough time dealing with film carryover concepts like ISO, and WTF is that blade icon about? I'm sure there are some younger people who have gone to film school and heard about 16mm, but in the broader DVXuser crowd - even those that want to move up - I'm sure it doesn't ring a bell as far as look or history.
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Well that is where Scarlet plays and for folks who teethed exclusively on video with all the automation and convenience features that implies, there will be a significant learning curve. Scarlet will handle and shoot more like a film camera than a video camera, although I am sure a lot of the video convenience features will be included on the fixed version at least.
If you haven't done so, nothing illustrates the difference in process and raw work flow better than downloading the latest version of Redcine-X and finding a couple of .r3d raw files to play with. Digital still photographers will have an easier time with this transition than the typical video shooter.
Learning to light and expose with photographic methods that are independent of whatever camera type or medium you are shooting with is a vitally important basic skill set to have if you are serious about your image quality. ISO/EV values, f-stop/T-stop, shutter angle vs shutter speed concepts, all deal directly with light itself and the interface between light and your image recording medium whether film or digital. Without reasonably comprehensive knowledge of these you do not have full creative control over your work.
 
David Rasberry said:
ISO/EV values, f-stop/T-stop, shutter angle vs shutter speed concepts, all deal directly with light itself and the interface between light and your image recording medium whether film or digital. Without reasonably comprehensive knowledge of these you do not have full creative control over your work.
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God darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
 
I think you are right Jason.
The DVX, HVX, HPX and EX crowd are the target Scarlet should shoot for.
But anyone who opts for something else just because of the 2/3" sensor is wrong. You could say, I don't have the horsepower in post to handle RAW and am not willing to invest in that. I could get that.
But what use is a bigger sensor if the video at the end is far less in quality and size?
You have to weigh a bit shallower dof vs easy stabelising with cropping so you don't lose resolution, high speed shooting for mindblowing slowmos and noiseless, artifactless images with incredible detail in shadows and highlights. Not to mention the flexibility in post, and how far you can go in color grading without hitting the limits of the codec.
I still stand by what I said here before. RED can double the price for Scarlet overnight and the demand will still be much bigger than supplies for a long long time.
A lot of people are sceptical now and buy other cameras. Which makes sense, you shouldn't stop working because of a camera that isn't for sale yet.
Once Scarlets are out though, shooting mindblowing footage, most of them will be back.

I still shoot with my DVX by the way. So I am part of the demographic. :)
 
Curiously (to me) what hasn't been mentioned in these recent lengthy posts is the unique value of shooting RAW. IMO, you can take away virtually every other of Scarlet's terrific features and THAT is still worth a premium price. Until another camera offers that, I will remain firmly in the RED camp.
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Sure, and a lot of people are right there with you. But, to the broader potential market (not the people already sold on the cam) is this something that's going to override other check marks that they are placing emphasis on these days (i.e. sensor size) when they've never actually experienced RAW? I'm not so sure. Right now, I perceive trepidation (rightly or wrongly) about RAW workflows from folks used to working in video codec world. For them, I see it as being something that they come to appreciate and realize the value of, which will *keep* them a customer... as opposed to something that that will sell them on the camera before the fact. First you have to get their attention. Then things like RAW, 120fps, etc become all the additional check marks that make a "D16" Scarlet all the more compelling. I'm just thinking in broader market terms, as opposed to the smaller market that will buy Scarlet already once it's out. RAW in video is still a new concept to many a shooter, and not necessarily something that makes the hair on their neck stand up.

p.s. David... I think D16 is a great branding for Scarlet. Something I've seen you mention before, and I agree with... and, something that helps do exactly what I was trying to point out in the part of my post about how Scarlet should be branded in order to help re-inforce, and re-clarify what Scarlet is to the broader market and what it has to offer in contrast to other similarly priced alternatives.
 
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Jason Ramsey said:
p.s. David... I think D16 is a great branding for Scarlet. Something I've seen you mention before, and I agree with... and, something that helps do exactly what I was trying to point out in the part of my post about how Scarlet should be branded in order to help re-inforce, and re-clarify what Scarlet is to the broader market and what it has to offer in contrast to other similarly priced alternatives.
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You might start with Digital 16 or some derivation. There are a lot of DSLR models called D## and a D16 will sound like yet another one or an upgrade. It will get called D16 on it's own by users eventually.

[edit] or... Digital Cinema 16 which will end up as DC16. Differentiates from video. Instead of yet another DSLR, it sounds like a plane. "Red 16 gives you wings!"
 
Danny Lingan said:
You might start with Digital 16 or some derivation. There are a lot of DSLR models called D## and a D16 will sound like yet another one or an upgrade. It will get called D16 on it's own by users.
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Fair point...

D16, S16, or whatever.... The overriding point still being branding Scarlet more fully as a digital cinema system to help distinguish it from similarly priced alternatives that potential buyers would look at.
 
Jason,

Agreed. Digital Cinema deserves distinction and different than video.
 
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