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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
Jay A. Kelley said:
Keep in mind that in regards to the fixed lens Scarlet, the term obsolescence obsolete, will not apply as much when compared with cameras that are more modular.

Jay
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There is no difference in modularity for the fixed version vs other models with the single exception of the lens.

From what Deanan posted it seems the issue is needing another processor board in the brain to handle the data stream for the second exposure.
 
Thomas Church said:
To me it seems obvious the AF100 will hit the streets way, way before Scarlet 2/3 fixed does.

I would also bet on seeing Canon's 5D mkIII and Sony's answer to the AF100 before Scarlet too.
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Seems a bit pessimistic to me. Both are at the field test prototype stage.
Of course the AF100 is just box stock Panasonic prosumer HD video camera tech in a new package. Much less challenging to develop. Not to say it won't be a very nice addition to the market. Real DSLR killer for video production with essentially the same work flow. But not as suitable for hi res stills since it is specifically optimised for the video function.
 
Here's new info on HDR for Epic. Some of that could be on Scarlets 2/3s. To read the whole thing, go here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=655272#post655272

JonFarhat said:
I just saw a demo last night of the HDRx™™ projected in 4K at RED Studios screening stage. I encourage EVERYBODY in VFX to see this! Absolutely, hands down the biggest advancement in the practical use of HDR I've ever seen.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a cheerleader here. I write very few posts but I feel compelled to share what I've seen with all my friends in the industry. If you thought the camera was a game changer, wait till you see this.

Seeing the jpg of the Fremont Street (Vegas) post doesn't do it justice. You have to get over to RED and see this for yourself.
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Ian B. Johnson said:
Regardless of what the call is, I take this as a bad sign for scarlet development. I don't anticipate the cameras being very close to release if the possibility of adding major internal features is still an option.
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This scared me too.

Just release a reasonable 2/3" Scarlet for God's sake. Soon. Save the ridiculous magic features normal people don't need for the cameras normal people can't afford.

Chuck Z said:
Why could Scarlet do HDRx at 60 fps but only 30 fps for EasyHDR? I thought HDRx records two streams, which would be more bandwidth intensive. Did I mix these two up?
.
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HDRx records two separate streams which would be more STORAGE bandwidth intensive. EasyHDR combines/processes/something like that the two streams before writing it out to the media, which would be much more PROCESSING bandwidth intensive. Since Epic and Scarlet share storage modules, I suspect its only in the processing that there is a major bandwidth difference.
 
Lee Saxon said:
This scared me too.

Just release a reasonable 2/3" Scarlet for God's sake. Soon. Save the ridiculous magic features normal people don't need for the cameras normal people can't afford.
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Hmmm, I would like my Scarlet to be as feature rich as possible, I guess I am abnormal.:leaving: That’s good to know.
 
YES absolutely. Especially on the Scarlet S35 and Scarlet FF. It already costs 7000 for just the Brain. 1k more for HDR? Yes, please. I doubt Scarlet Fixed or even 2/3 interchangeable people will be interested, though. 1k on a 4750 fixed kit is just too much, but a good S35 package is already going to cost upwards of 12-15k easily.
 
I still say the 2/3" Scarlet, fixed and cinema, does not need that feature. I am, however that the S35 as well as Epic would benefit form that feature. We "SOCCER MOMS and DADS" won't need it.

Wait a minute those are the people who might need it most of all, being that they might not have extra lighting. Anyway I still say don't need it on the 2/3" models.
 
soccer sucker

soccer sucker

I am a soccer dad and a pro documentary director/shooter. I need the 2/3 fixed (well, two or three, actually) because it is going to be perfect for pro docs. And my shooting scenarios will benefit hugely from HDR, RAW, 3k, small form factor. Many others will benefit from that, too.

Anyway, this has been an interesting thread. There's a lot of opinions floating around, based on what each contributor 'needs': 'Camera now', '3k for 3k', 'I need to rent my Epic out and don't ned the Scarlet to be too good' etcetera. But looking at this entire thread I must repeat that every camera model will benefit hugely form HDR, period. It is up to Red to decide what makes sense to the company in relation to the business side of things, and to stand out from the competition in the short and long term. I sure hope that HDR will be available on the fixed. To me that is a pro camera that will make money. What else do you want from a tool?
Yours truly, a Soccer-Sucker-Dad
 
soren k jensen said:
I am a soccer dad and a pro documentary director/shooter. I need the 2/3 fixed (well, two or three, actually) because it is going to be perfect for pro docs. And my shooting scenarios will benefit hugely from HDR, RAW, 3k, small form factor. Many others will benefit from that, too.

Anyway, this has been an interesting thread. There's a lot of opinions floating around, based on what each contributor 'needs': 'Camera now', '3k for 3k', 'I need to rent my Epic out and don't ned the Scarlet to be too good' etcetera. But looking at this entire thread I must repeat that every camera model will benefit hugely form HDR, period. It is up to Red to decide what makes sense to the company in relation to the business side of things, and to stand out from the competition in the short and long term. I sure hope that HDR will be available on the fixed. To me that is a pro camera that will make money. What else do you want from a tool?
Yours truly, a Soccer-Sucker-Dad
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Ultimately that is my view too. 2/3" stands to benefit more from HDR than the larger formats IMO. Still keeps a reasonable basic kit in the Canon XF305, Sony EX1 range.
 
Let me clarify my p.o.v. The HDR is an amazing developement, but at the moment I do not have the clientel to pay it off within a one year period. Mainly because I mostly do audio work for video. I do video shoots, weddings, sparingly because it is hard to find good reliable help. I plan to use the Scarlet for my first feature. The script is ready, audio gear is in place, most of the lighting is at hand. Just need the camera at the budget I have set aside for it. I have to stay on budget. So an extra grand could put my feature on hold even longer.
 
Cedric Akins said:
Let me clarify my p.o.v. The HDR is an amazing developement, but at the moment I do not have the clientel to pay it off within a one year period. Mainly because I mostly do audio work for video. I do video shoots, weddings, sparingly because it is hard to find good reliable help. I plan to use the Scarlet for my first feature. The script is ready, audio gear is in place, most of the lighting is at hand. Just need the camera at the budget I have set aside for it. I have to stay on budget. So an extra grand could put my feature on hold even longer.
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You might not want to lose sight of the fact that there are other capable cameras out there, available now, that are suitable for shooting pretty darn good video. Scarlet will be a fabulous camera but it will, by no means, have 100% market share. Shoot your feature. It isn't going to be made or broken by the camera with which you shoot it.
 
David Rasberry said:
Seems a bit pessimistic to me. Both are at the field test prototype stage.
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It's what a lot of people here have said: the simple fact that RED is asking this means that the camera is far from being shipped.

Personally I think RED is really threatening the success of Scarlet 2/3 with these endless delays.

And a lot of us are waiting for Scarlet to shoot our features because:

A-We need a camera good in low light since we have either few or no lights.

B-We need RAW acquisition in order to do some heavy grading so we can not only improve the image but correct some of its flaws

At the moment there isn't an affordable camera on the market that offers both.
 
I understand what David and Soren are saying. However, if you want to stand out from the crowd you first have to be standing in the field. There can and will be a second and third generation 2/3 fixed Scarlet... Provided the first generation ever gets out.

There comes a point where you have to draw a line. As in producing a film, if there is no hard deadline the thing will NEVER be finished. There will always be another tweak, here and there. Eventually you have to let the baby go off to school, go into the world, move out of the house... Get a damn life!

That again is why I say module please, if you are able, but deliver already.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
You might not want to lose sight of the fact that there are other capable cameras out there, available now, that are suitable for shooting pretty darn good video. Scarlet will be a fabulous camera but it will, by no means, have 100% market share. Shoot your feature. It isn't going to be made or broken by the camera with which you shoot it.
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I agree. There are so many cameras for zero to micro budget productions with incredibly good picture quality now—as Philip Bloom can clearly demonstrate. I have a bunch of 7Ds and 5Ds that I shoot with all the time for the company I work for practically everyday this year. The PMW-EX3 coupled with a nano flash is pretty cool too, among many other cameras. People should not schedule their productions around the Scarlet or Epic. Use what's available-- there's plenty of stuff out there. I feel Red is positioning their cameras as game changing cameras for the next 3-4 years, as opposed to just releasing something for the sake of appeasing to the natives.

As an aside, after reading most of the posts here, I get the impression a few people have a myopic view of the scarlet camera and view it as an end all solution to their productions, and not really factoring the overall cost. Some say the Scarlet 3k will be perfect for documentaries, but not really considering the post-processing involved. Documentaries have a high shooting ratio requiring a lot of footage to be transcoded which translates to a lot of post-processing and storage. The red rocket is a must for processing that much footage and that will set you back an additional 5k--but I don't hear anyone really stomping their feet on that one.

Or, how additional dynamic range is not needed for their small productions and they just want to shoot now because it's cheap and it will be perfect for their project. In fact it's probably the smaller productions that need the most range, since they probably don't have the same access to lights as the professional crews. Last time I checked renting a decent HMI lighting kit can set you back as much as the camera itself.
 
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Thomas Church said:
And a lot of us are waiting for Scarlet to shoot our features because:

A-We need a camera good in low light since we have either few or no lights.

B-We need RAW acquisition in order to do some heavy grading so we can not only improve the image but correct some of its flaws

At the moment there isn't an affordable camera on the market that offers both.
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Nor will there be before Scarlet ships. There so far is no evidence, not even rumors, of practical raw motion cameras under about $50k from anyone else except for a couple of small developers like Ikonoscope. They are nowhere near the overall performance and image quality potential of Scarlet.

Fact is with modern Cad/Cam and rapid prototyping processes, the hardware mods can be done much faster than the software programming needed to support them. Matter of days or a couple of weeks at most from design modification to test prototype. Depending on where Red is with finding a new manufacturing partner and setting up a production line, a mod like this might not impact the schedule very much at all.
 
Thomas Church said:
It's what a lot of people here have said: the simple fact that RED is asking this means that the camera is far from being shipped.

Personally I think RED is really threatening the success of Scarlet 2/3 with these endless delays.

And a lot of us are waiting for Scarlet to shoot our features because:

A-We need a camera good in low light since we have either few or no lights.

B-We need RAW acquisition in order to do some heavy grading so we can not only improve the image but correct some of its flaws

At the moment there isn't an affordable camera on the market that offers both.
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You'll have to pardon me but this sounds just a little, well... crazy. There has never been a Scarlet before and yet dozens, hundreds, thousands of films get made. Before RED, there was never a digital camera that shot RAW video. And yet... well, you get the idea.

No matter what, you still need good lighting to get a nice image. And there are many ways to achieve that. And you still need good exposure to get a good image. Do you really expect to rely on "heavy grading" to make your film look good. Let's face it, your first feature is not likely to win an Oscar so make it a great learning experience. If making a good film relies on getting a Scarlet, well... OK, I already said it. Really, grab a friend's 7D (or EX-1 or Hi-8) and go shoot!!

And just BTW - I don't think anyone except the RED team really knows what this question means about development and shipping schedules, despite many posts claiming the contrary.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
And just BTW - I don't think anyone except the RED team really knows what this question means about development and shipping schedules, despite many posts claiming the contrary.
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I agree. I have engineering mags on my desk with ads for specialists that will return machined finished prototypes from your cad file and specs in less than a week. Same for ciruit boards. Hardware prototyping is not a major time eater. Making it work after you get the parts can be though.
 
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