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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Expectations...

Andy Roberts said:
I'm guessing 3 configurations:
3K 2/3 Fixed 120 FPS $8,000
3K 2/3 Brain 120 FPS $4,500
5K S35 60FPS $15,000
All 3 HDRx capable (thus cutting frame rates in half)

Maybe it has been answered elsewhere, but if Scarlet is not going to have at least one configuration that is similar to the camera last known as Epic-S (and formerly known as Scarlet S35-DSMC), then why does the red store list Red Pro Primes as Scarlet compatible? Even the Scarlet 2/3 Cinema (non-fixed lens) would require Mini Primes and not PL lenses, correct?
...
Click to expand...

Wrong. There are many PL-mount super16 lenses available, and for telephoto lenses even s35-lenses make sense on the Scarlet.
 
Andy Roberts said:
I'm guessing 3 configurations:
3K 2/3 Fixed 120 FPS $8,000
3K 2/3 Brain 120 FPS $4,500
5K S35 60FPS $15,000
All 3 HDRx capable (thus cutting frame rates in half)
Click to expand...
This sounds almost exactly like what Red announced previously, with some price adjustments. Rebranding the Epic-S model a Scarlet only gets it mentioned on Scarlet day. If it's still Epic-branded, maybe it'll be announced on the 3rd, or maybe a little later. According to Jim's response to queries regarding Epic-S, "The camera you want is at the end of the year," so I still expect a low-end S35 4K-5K model, whatever its name.
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
I have to agree with Terry here. I've suggested a 4K solution for Scarlet, but not necessarily one in response to the earthquakes and tsunami in Japan but one that was developed as a skunkworks project (come to think of it, all of Red's projects are skunkworks projects!). My point -- we have no idea what Red's been working on. With all the heated discussion about how 3K Scarlet fits into Red's 4K vision of the future, I seriously doubt they'd develop yet another one. A 3K S35 camera seems antithetical to what Red stands for. It would mean a lot of expensive development for something that's arguably a step backward.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Lawrence and Terry. Good points to chew on. As far as RED philosophy goes, a 3K S35 may not make much sense. That would explain why no one brought up that combo.

But I have to say, a step backwards or not, I 'd buy that motherscratcher if they ever made it.
 
John C Picking Jr said:
I think calling people out who really love RED cameras and say good things about them all the time is really not needed on a REDUser forum. There is a DVXuser forum to promote other camera brands. This forum is for getting info from RED directly and then having fun discussing it. Why get so distressed? And BTW, RED is perfect!
Click to expand...

Again, there's nothing wrong with RED cheerleading. I've done it myself, in my own way. But I don't think this forum is solely about that. It gets infuriating when a legitimate discourse is met with people feeling like they have to defend RED at all costs. RED and its products are more than good enough to withstand constructive criticism (see what I did there?). It's almost as if the ones who shout "GO RED" in order to thwart what they deem to be a less than favorable discussion are the real non-believers.

Jim has expressed on numerous occasions this forum and its contributors are a source of inspiration and valuable feedback. That can't happen if all the posts are pro-RED, all of the time.

Cheer away...but not in order to silence. That's my only point.
 
Why is this discussion considered "RED cheerleading?" For my part, I am just defending a set of, what I think are, realistic expectations for the November 3rd announcement. RED does some pretty great things and they also stumble, too. I expect that will continue. I am not saying the Scarlet will be perfect; I am just expressing what I think it will be - and what it is unlikely to be. Where's the cheerleading in that?
 
Brian Boyer said:
Good points to chew on. As far as RED philosophy goes, a 3K S35 may not make much sense. That would explain why no one brought up that combo.
Click to expand...
Au contraire, a 3K S35 Red camera has been suggested many times on RedUser, as well as a 2K S35 model.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Why is this discussion considered "RED cheerleading?" For my part, I am just defending a set of, what I think are, realistic expectations for the November 3rd announcement. RED does some pretty great things and they also stumble, too. I expect that will continue. I am not saying the Scarlet will be perfect; I am just expressing what I think it will be - and what it is unlikely to be. Where's the cheerleading in that?
Click to expand...

I keep making the mistake of thinking people are paying attention to the ENTIRETY of what I've stated in this thread. That is apparently not the case.

Terry, I wasn't referring to you or anything I've read by you in this thread thus far. I'm speaking in general about something that's been going on for years.

It's not Scarlet specific. It's not November 3rd related. It just came up as a by-product of one of my posts in this thread. My response to John explains what I meant.

Now, really guys, I'm trying to shut up for a change.
 
You really need to listen to constructive criticism yourself. The statement below was inflammatory and not based at all on actual discussions on this forum. You are also rehashing discussions from a month ago with your 3K S35. Please do a little reading before posting.


[NOTE: Please fight the urge to engage in "RED has no competition" type ass kissing, thank you very much]
 
Andy Roberts said:
Lower than $15K? I'd be glad to go on record (and be wrong) to say that I see no way for Red to have an S35 4K/5K camera for less than $15K when Epic Brain is $35K on New Year's Day. When Epic-S was discussed for "around $12K", that was before the price increases on Epic-X. Epic-X went up $7,000. For Epic-S to go up at least $3,000 seems only logical. To protect the value of Epic-X, any other S35 5K camera has to be reasonably priced ($15K +) or else it will cannibalize Epic-X. It has to be low enough in price to hit a particular market segment (indies, eng, etc) but high enough to protect the value of Epic-X... Because I want high-resolution stills, I hope there is a lower-cost 5K camera. But the financial realities of it tells me $15K is the cheapest S35 5K camera Red will make in the near future.
Click to expand...
Hold your horses, fella. I never mentioned any specific price. The $12-15K Epic-S was Red's low-end S35 model (as was the Scarlet S35 before it). My point was, no matter what Red names it, Jim Jannard has intimated that there will be an S35 model below the Epic-X that will be announced and possibly released by year's end.
 
Andy Roberts said:
Lower than $15K? I'd be glad to go on record (and be wrong) to say that I see no way for Red to have an S35 4K/5K camera for less than $15K when Epic Brain is $35K on New Year's Day. When Epic-S was discussed for "around $12K", that was before the price increases on Epic-X. Epic-X went up $7,000. For Epic-S to go up at least $3,000 seems only logical. To protect the value of Epic-X, any other S35 5K camera has to be reasonably priced ($15K +) or else it will cannibalize Epic-X. It has to be low enough in price to hit a particular market segment (indies, eng, etc) but high enough to protect the value of Epic-X... Because I want high-resolution stills, I hope there is a lower-cost 5K camera. But the financial realities of it tells me $15K is the cheapest S35 5K camera Red will make in the near future.
Click to expand...

There is nothing to stop Red from making a lower than 5k resolution smaller sensor S35 camera. A 4k 22mm wide sensor comparable to the original Red 1 format is a logical path to a lower cost camera, one that could more than compete with any of the other low end S35 production cameras and fit comfortably around the F3 price range for a base package without competing directly with Epic.
 
S35 at 3k makes sense, in some respects.

Better DR
Better low light

but most importantly

A clear product separation from Epic.

I'm not sure RED are that sort of company... but, as much as it might go against the way they have operated, they probably have to protect the Epic line. I'm not saying this will likely happen or even that I want it... (I just want a fixed 2/3"). But it is an option.
 
David Rasberry said:
There is nothing to stop Red from making a lower than 5k resolution smaller sensor S35 camera. A 4k 22mm wide sensor comparable to the original Red 1 format is a logical path to a lower cost camera, one that could more than compete with any of the other low end S35 production cameras and fit comfortably around the F3 price range for a base package without competing directly with Epic.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but if after all the fanfare surrounding the announcement of the Epic-S, what is to be done with it? If its price moves too close to that of Epic-X, the S won't be seen as a good buy. If it stays at around $15K, a $10-12K 4K camera might be in competition with it -- or viewed as not being a good buy, if its other features fall short of the S's. If the 4K replaces the S but is priced too high, some people will gripe (remember "3k for $3K"'s lasting effect?).
 
John C Picking Jr said:
You really need to listen to constructive criticism yourself. The statement below was inflammatory and not based at all on actual discussions on this forum. You are also rehashing discussions from a month ago with your 3K S35. Please do a little reading before posting.


[NOTE: Please fight the urge to engage in "RED has no competition" type ass kissing, thank you very much]
Click to expand...

I gladly accept constructive criticism when it's on point, as your statement was this time (mostly). And, speaking of reading before posting, I already admitted to being a jerk and missing the S35@3K discussion. See, I'm not so bad.
 
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Andy Roberts said:
Current pricing if all other specs stayed the same is probably in the $7K range for the fixed.
But at this point, who knows if there is a fixed and what has been added or subtracted.
Click to expand...
I hope nothing has been subtracted. By the way, in an earlier post, you pegged the fixed at $8K.
 
Andy Roberts said:
Current pricing if all other specs stayed the same is probably in the $7K range for the fixed.
But at this point, who knows if there is a fixed and what has been added or subtracted....

Lawrence Bansbach said:
I hope nothing has been subtracted. By the way, in an earlier post, you pegged the fixed at $8K.
Click to expand...


Fixed my post. Since I'm just guessing, my numbers are relatively fluid ;)
Click to expand...

So what your saying is while your fixed on your fixed, your not fixed but fluid on your fixed price?

:closedeyes:
 
My expectation is that my wallet will be a lot lighter come November 4th, and that I will be a lot more excited. Is there any word on when we can jump into stage 4 for the Epic X?

-mike
 
Jannard said:
I have read a lot of the posts regarding Scarlet. There are so many unrealistic expectations that it takes the wind out of our sails.

Some people apparently have no idea what realistic is.

"Why not 28K at 1000fps RAW in a raisin box for $800?"

We are so happy to have a complete competitive advantage. We consider our customers as one of us. What we have always done is beat the competition in price/performance. But the misguided expectations for Scarlet are killing me.

You should expect a lot from us. But within reason. Really.

Measure us against our competitors... not your fantasies.

Nothing competes with EPIC. Nothing will compete with Scarlet... except your wildest dreams.

Get real. Get real before November 3rd. Or you will be unnecessarily disappointed. Which is totally unnecessary.

Jim
Click to expand...


Get real, yeah, sure... point well and truly taken, some people have been saying crazy things. But..


"Originally Posted by Jannard
I'm expecting Nov. 3rd to be the biggest announcement in the history of RED.

Jim"


Can't let us down after that :-)

And FWIW Jim, unless you totally jump the shark, I'm buying on the 3rd. Money being wired tomorrow.

Mike
 
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