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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Everything changes...

Elsie N said:
Andrew, isn't what you are proposing the same as a lease?
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Much less expensive than lease. Lease on the broadcast or cine equipment is cost prohibitive if you need it all the time. Even comparing it to the car lease is expensive that usually runs for about 3 years or so.

Here we are talking 5 years (20%) Service contract. Theoretically impossible proposition for manufacture of the high tech 3 years shelve life equipment. So why I think it is possible?

Well because of modularity. Cameras as oppose to current architecture of the computers are lending itself to modular approach.
When we move to the next generation of the camera we already keep the lenses, don’t we.
With RED we keep EVF, batteries, all mounting hardware etc.

Having sensor and GPU together in a small box that could be also autonomous for basic configuration is simply genius. Having fully configured camera in Pro version on 20% free upgrade annual contract would be the first in this industry.

Especially if the brain inside would have factory upgradable architecture.
Like EPIC-X converted to Dragon or RED-1 upgraded to MX option.

So far looking on average upgrade from RED-1 to MX-to EPIC-X to Dragon looks to me like 20%/year expense anyway, and all this without any contract.
 
I have invested heavily in RED (equipment) and I feel very safe about that - *the future´s so bright, I gotta wear shades!

*Timbuk 3
 
I don't see them lowering prices any time soon. I think Scarlet (accessories included) is a steal compared to anything else on the market.
 
I read a few posts about how people think RED needs a $10-$12K all-in package, probably the existing Scarlet-X, with upgrade to Dragon options for existing (and new) X customers.

Kinda surprised there's not a bigger "Shut the fuck up! I just dropped $20K on my Scarlet package!" backlash around the web to that idea. Maybe everybody's busy shooting stuff with their Scarlet-Xs?

But the idea is intriguing. Things are changing in this space, and quickly. If RED is going to continue to kick ass, things will indeed continue to change. And maybe pricing and product strategy are part of that. Not just whizzy cool new stuff. I don't have any idea what RED's plans are, but I can say that every time in the last 3.X years I've read Jim talk about "change", it's not just been "Here's some cotton candy and Red Bull! For FREE!" (although often that's part of it). Change can be painful, and difficult. Mostly, change means keep an open mind, and roll with it.

So, hmm, NAB could be anything- we'll see!
 
I just hope the Dragon upgrade path for Scarlet isn't an arm and a leg, considering they will have to core out the insides and re-arrange boards :-/
 
patrickortman said:
Maybe everybody's busy shooting stuff with their Scarlet-Xs?
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Yes.

And so far no other company has been able to put out a camera that records 4K 16 bit raw without any sort of external recorder that all fits in the palm of your hand. In that way, I don't see Scarlet as having any direct competition whatsoever.
 
Jim's comments are what I love most about Red, and I can see the company continuously honing in on this amazing flexible system that covers all bases through modularity. And reduser is certainly the place to learn about all of it. I have one quick note on this though, and I'm sure its been addressed before, so please educate me. I'm curious why the Pro Version of Redcine X is not easily found on the support page. I do know its still beta, but so many DIT's are downloading the lated release build totally unaware of the fact that 12 more builds have happened since release built 506 because they don't read the forums every day. Those pro builds not only contain some of my favorite advances in the program, but inspire many DIT's to suddenly love the program that previously wasn't as user friendly. A major threshold in accessibility was crossed with the pro builds, and I'm curious why skilled educated professionals are frequently not finding this amazing (beta) tool in the obvious place - red.com/support.
 
Jannard said:
It used to be that technology advanced at a predetermined pace. You bought a camera or computer and it was good for a couple of years. Then you bought a new one. And it was good for the next couple of years.

Things are different now. Things change much more rapidly. Almost every week. New capabilities happen every time you turn around. You have to pay attention.

At RED, we make you stay awake. New firmware builds happen often. REDCINE-X updates happen all the time. New color science. New features are enabled. Improvements happen often... usually free.

The idea of buying a new camera every time something new comes along is just too expensive. That is why we subscribe to the "update" philosophy.

"Everything can, and will, be made better. It is just a matter of when and by whom." Trust us to keep you current.

Jim
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+101

:-)
 
Jim, sincerely, what other options are there at the level of what you guys offer? On the bandwagon, heavily invested, blown away, shooting amazing motion pictures right now, and cannot wait where you guys take us next!
 
Adam Johnson said:
I just hope the Dragon upgrade path for Scarlet isn't an arm and a leg, considering they will have to core out the insides and re-arrange boards :-/
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Well, wasn't R1 M to MX $5000?

And having to replace the guts doesn't sound cheap. And not even from a materials point of view but from a labor point of view. Having to pull apart not only the Scarlets but also the Epics (not as much but still)

That might be a wallet stinger. :ack2:
 
There are also some old good things that can happen..sometime ago i asked Jim about peaking for the evf and a short time later a firmware update included peaking. Also I've owned cameras from almost every major company and Jim and JP from Aaton are the only ones you could ever communicate with directly, and get some action.

rich lerner
conspriacy films llc
rocky mountain 4k llc
 
patrickortman said:
Kinda surprised there's not a bigger "Shut the fuck up! I just dropped $20K on my Scarlet package!" backlash around the web to that idea. Maybe everybody's busy shooting stuff with their Scarlet-Xs?
Click to expand...

Speaking practically as someone who dropped about $25k on RED gear in the last couple months I can sort of speak to this question:

1) More than half is non-red gear: Fluid head, sticks, matte box, follow focus, glass, power, bridgeplate etc etc... So even if they dropped the Scarlet Body to $5k I still would have spent the "other" $10k. And that would only be a 20% price cut which is expected on gear that's been out for half a year.
2) Cutting the price on media or accessories would save me money too. So if RED made a shooting package cheaper I would benefit on buying more cards etc.
3) I've already made back half the price of a scarlet-body. So if they dropped the price by half I would still come out ahead.

#3 being the largest reason I wouldn't be annoyed by a huge price drop. Unlike an ipod which just costs me money, pro-tools theoretically earn money. You're always fighting to make back your investment + profit before it depreciates.
 
Price cut wouldn't make me angry, a little sad thinking where the extra would have went if I waited but that's the price of being an early adopter..
Although IF there was a price cut, RED could make it a little sweeter by discounting the Dragon upgrade for those who paid for their scarlet pre-price drop. :ihih:

The only other thing I've been hearing about pre-NAB is the FS700 and although it is 4K ready, I just have doubts it would match the image quality from the scarlet. A lot of the footage in the demo said 'video' to my eyes.
 
Adam Johnson said:
I just hope the Dragon upgrade path for Scarlet isn't an arm and a leg, considering they will have to core out the insides and re-arrange boards :-/
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Define "an arm and a leg" I'd guess about 10k if it's actually possible.
 
it would be great if they took parts from epic to upgrade to dragon, then just put those parts into scarlet. even if scarlet doesnt get dragon sensor and they just upgrade it to epic status, That would be great. :) Epics get dragon, Scarlet becomes epic. I can deal with that.
 
Jannard said:
It used to be that technology advanced at a predetermined pace. You bought a camera or computer and it was good for a couple of years. Then you bought a new one. And it was good for the next couple of years.

Things are different now. Things change much more rapidly. Almost every week. New capabilities happen every time you turn around. You have to pay attention.

At RED, we make you stay awake. New firmware builds happen often. REDCINE-X updates happen all the time. New color science. New features are enabled. Improvements happen often... usually free.

The idea of buying a new camera every time something new comes along is just too expensive. That is why we subscribe to the "update" philosophy.

"Everything can, and will, be made better. It is just a matter of when and by whom." Trust us to keep you current.

Jim
Click to expand...

Soon!
 
Domenic Barbero said:
it would be great if they took parts from epic to upgrade to dragon, then just put those parts into scarlet. even if scarlet doesnt get dragon sensor and they just upgrade it to epic status, That would be great. :) Epics get dragon, Scarlet becomes epic. I can deal with that.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong and everything changes but last I remember the Epics didn't need as much re-working to be upgraded. Where as Scarlets needed a new board and sensor or something.
 
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