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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Eventual Helium Sensor-Only Upgrade?

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BrendanLeahy

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The Epic-W and Weapon Helium upgrade paths are nice, but I'm actually really content with my current Dragon sensor FOV, and don't feel I need 8K at the moment (which brings on other costs with cards and such). Additionally, I'm cool with the Magnesium body.

Has it been stated whether or not we can just do a sensor + board upgrade down the line from Dragon to Helium, especially us with Mg owners that aren't moving on up to 8K right now?
 
I believe Jarred said the deadline for magnesium owners to upgrade to Epic-W or Weapon Helium is Dec 31st.
 
Not sure the sensor upgrade is being offered for MG due to the lower datarate of 225 vs 275. That is a guess though.
 
Somewhere in the update thread
 
BrendanLeahy said:
Right, but that's both a body and sensor swap - I'm just looking to see if we can do sensor-only swaps, like they did with Scarlet + Epic Mysterium-X to Dragon sensors before!
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Do you have a CF Weapon? If not, then that will not be an option. If you do have a CF body, then before 10/11 it is $4750. After it is $9500 for the sensor swap.

If you have a DSMC1, then this will never happen.
 
BrendanLeahy said:
Ah damn we'll that's really strange...
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They are trying to simplify the line-up. You can no longer purchase or upgrade to Magnesium. To make it easy, they are swapping them out with a new Weapon Helium or EPIC-W.

Now, I fully understand the desire to keep the Dragon for FOV and that you don't desire 8K at this point.

What you want to know is how long of a window you have before you can no longer upgrade your magnesium. And if the price will go up in the future as well.

 
BrendanLeahy said:
Alternatively, and I doubt this a lot, it'd be cool to see a 6K cut of Helium with the same FOV as the Dragon currently. Impossible I'm sure and a step backwards, though.
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there's talk that if you shoot 8K 16:1 then it will be about the same data space as 6K.. the hellium can handle the higher compression rates
 
BrendanLeahy said:
Yeah, but that's also spending $9,500 - $15,000 to get the same data specs as Dragon minus the higher fps, so it's a bit of a toss-up for me personally :/
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Thinking about how this upgrade event has been, including even old Red One MXs into the upgrade mix, I would assume that any notion that the upgrade "window" will shut a few months from today isn't going to matter much. There will be a new upgrade in the future and there will be new options to even better cameras and if they keep caring for older cameras like they did now, they will probably do the same next time. Thinking about current media and 4K distribution, 6K Dragon will be fine until Red releases their next camera body, which will be a huge and costly upgrade in comparison, just as the Epic to Weapon was. So the smart move might just be to wait for the next upgrade and go from MG to that.

I'm glad that Red is still innovating, but the upgrade to Helium came a little too soon to be possible for my economy. It may change in coming months, but for now I'm a bit tired of the upgrade race. I've been doing it for two years to stay up to date, but in the end it feels as just being upgrades for upgrades sake. I'm probably gonna spend my 15K on a better post production computer, 4K grading screen and maybe look at new lens options. If I have anything left, spend it on my pilots and short films. I've been doing tests with HDRx and found some good post strategies to get 25 stops of DR, which might not be possible on the 8K (the technique that is), both in terms of how it works but also managing double 8K data rates. Shooting entire exteriors in HDRx for narrative work will eat up space even on 6K.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Thinking about how this upgrade event has been, including even old Red One MXs into the upgrade mix, I would assume that any notion that the upgrade "window" will shut a few months from today isn't going to matter much. There will be a new upgrade in the future and there will be new options to even better cameras and if they keep caring for older cameras like they did now, they will probably do the same next time. Thinking about current media and 4K distribution, 6K Dragon will be fine until Red releases their next camera body, which will be a huge and costly upgrade in comparison, just as the Epic to Weapon was. So the smart move might just be to wait for the next upgrade and go from MG to that.

I'm glad that Red is still innovating, but the upgrade to Helium came a little too soon to be possible for my economy. It may change in coming months, but for now I'm a bit tired of the upgrade race. I've been doing it for two years to stay up to date, but in the end it feels as just being upgrades for upgrades sake. I'm probably gonna spend my 15K on a better post production computer, 4K grading screen and maybe look at new lens options. If I have anything left, spend it on my pilots and short films. I've been doing tests with HDRx and found some good post strategies to get 25 stops of DR, which might not be possible on the 8K (the technique that is), both in terms of how it works but also managing double 8K data rates. Shooting entire exteriors in HDRx for narrative work will eat up space even on 6K.
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Totally agree with a lot of what you said. There are insane looking movies and shows out shot on Epic Dragon. I just don't see enough to justify the cost of an upgrade, having just got my Epic Dragon less than 1 year ago.
Epic W doesn't make sense as I lose all higher frame rates at the full S35 FOV so the only option is the Weapon Helium which is a bunch of cash for a sensor that has a few outstanding questions. I bet it will be amazing but for now I've read a bunch of posts here where Helium owners are seeing 1 stop less in the highlights, granted this is based on Dragon CS and the base ISO is higher so not really a fair comparison, but to warrant the price of entry for me it has to answer a few questions first.
Also the 8K workflow is a little daunting. Can right now kind of edit at 6k on a top of the line macbook pro when on the road but I doubt I'll be able to do much with 8K yet.
 
With all respect, I really think you might be kicking yourself down the line. The upgrade is definitely going to cost you more to a lot more in the future. I get that u like dragon FOV and don't want to pay for more mags etc right now, but $9500 to Epic-W is not much compared to what it could cost you after Dec 31st.
 
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Dominik Bauch said:
Totally agree with a lot of what you said. There are insane looking movies and shows out shot on Epic Dragon. I just don't see enough to justify the cost of an upgrade, having just got my Epic Dragon less than 1 year ago.
Epic W doesn't make sense as I lose all higher frame rates at the full S35 FOV so the only option is the Weapon Helium which is a bunch of cash for a sensor that has a few outstanding questions. I bet it will be amazing but for now I've read a bunch of posts here where Helium owners are seeing 1 stop less in the highlights, granted this is based on Dragon CS and the base ISO is higher so not really a fair comparison, but to warrant the price of entry for me it has to answer a few questions first.
Also the 8K workflow is a little daunting. Can right now kind of edit at 6k on a top of the line macbook pro when on the road but I doubt I'll be able to do much with 8K yet.
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The only reason I like Helium is the better noise handling. I've been hearing from too many colorists about the Epic Dragon and Weapon Dragon that they feel the material is way too noisy for such a high level camera. But comparing the $9500 upgrade price of going from MX to Epic Dragon back when Dragon was new, that was a tremendous upgrade in image quality. I'm not so sure Helium feel justified at an upgrade price at $15000 to get almost the same internal specs.
 
True... really interested to heard about and see the new CS in action. If skintones and overall image is as good as I hope then I'd be hard pressed not to jump.
 
BrendanLeahy said:
The Epic-W and Weapon Helium upgrade paths are nice, but I'm actually really content with my current Dragon sensor FOV...Has it been stated whether or not we can just do a sensor + board upgrade down the line from Dragon to Helium...
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May be easier down the long road to just sell your MG kit and buy new
 
Christoffer Glans said:
The only reason I like Helium is the better noise handling. I've been hearing from too many colorists about the Epic Dragon and Weapon Dragon that they feel the material is way too noisy for such a high level camera. But comparing the $9500 upgrade price of going from MX to Epic Dragon back when Dragon was new, that was a tremendous upgrade in image quality. I'm not so sure Helium feel justified at an upgrade price at $15000 to get almost the same internal specs.
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its $9500 for same specs brain. not $1500
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I'm not so sure Helium feel justified at an upgrade price at $15000 to get almost the same internal specs.
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Epic-W is no-doubt a great camera, and makes a lot of sense for those buying additional new camera bodies.

It's awesome RED offers an upgrade option - but its just that, an option.
 
Daniel Reed said:
Epic-W is no-doubt a great camera, and makes a lot of .sense for those buying additional new camera bodies.

It's awesome RED offers an upgrade option - but its just that, an option.
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But it's a bit odd that if I sell my MG I could reduce the cost of a new Epic-W compared to the upgrade price with like 3000 - 4000
 
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