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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic-W

sam karr said:
The pixel size of the Helium, 3.65 microns.
24.9mm (S35) / 0.00365=6821 pixels (7k)
The Epic-W is 8k so the full sensor will be around 30mm large but you'll crop to 7k to shoot smaller S35 format.
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What he said.

Phil's tools are also very helpful for learning facts about Helium.

For example, the FOV of Dragon 5K is almost the same as Helium 7K...but the data rate is essentially doubled (something good to know in advance!).

Looking forward to learning more about Helium...
 
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Guys, How do you think why Helium is much light sensetive then Dragon and more clean in the shadows? Is it because of small pixel in 3.65 microns?
 
Datsenko Alexey said:
Guys, How do you think why Helium is much light sensetive then Dragon and more clean in the shadows? Is it because of small pixel in 3.65 microns?
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What's crazy is that smaller pixels "technically" would make it worse in low light, however, these are "better" pixels. It seems the signal to noise ratio, and dynamic range are "the same", but they shifted the base ISO to be higher. This means lower ISOs have way more stops in the shadows, so to get the same highlight protection, have to have at least 1600 ISO. But since the base ISO is higher, lower noise floor at higher ISOs. Really cool approach. Downside is you are going to need some NDs working in day light! Not a big deal though.
 
Thanks, Of course clean shadows plus Nd filters for highlight it is cool, but
What is the "price" of this small pixel? The price is fast clipping in highlight? So actually we have Helium for Shadows and Dragon for highlights?
Or the bigger pixel in Dragon has some more advantages?
 
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The color science hasn't been released for Helium quite yet, which could unlock more stops in the highlights (Already seeing this in REDWideGamutRGB. See here). Helium is said to have much higher color accuracy, but they haven't shown off the new color science to show any true examples yet.

So far, the only "price" that I have seen is that highlights clip faster at lower ISOs, compared to Dragon, but the counter to that is using NDs, and setting the Helium to higher ISOs to get the same highlight protection as Dragon.
 
Adam Montville said:
The color science hasn't been released for Helium quite yet, which could unlock more stops in the highlights (Already seeing this in REDWideGamutRGB. See here). Helium is said to have much higher color accuracy, but they haven't shown off the new color science to show any true examples yet.

So far, the only "price" that I have seen is that highlights clip faster at lower ISOs, compared to Dragon, but the counter to that is using NDs, and setting the Helium to higher ISOs to get the same highlight protection as Dragon.
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Exactly. I think Helium is simply a different beast than Dragon.

It's cleaner in shadows, but requires working at higher ISO's for even DR (1280 it looks like).

Though Helium plus Skintone OLPF may put you at 800 (vs Dragon 320), which could make Helium color INSANE at a very usable/common ISO.

Also, data rates at same FOV effectively double.

For the "look" of Scarlet-W 5K, you'll need to shoot Helium 7K...which is twice the data. It be like shooting Scarlet 5K at 48fps the whole time.

Also - for shooting 120fps at 4K, on Scarlet-W you are getting an ACADEMY 35 FOV. Whereas 4K 120fps on Helium is S16 - much tighter FOV (again, could be AMAZING for sports guys wanting to throw on S16 zooms and glass).

Being able to shoot 4K at S16 is a major plus for Helium.

So it's just a whole new beast.

But for me, Helium + Skintone OLPF at 800 ISO may be provide incredible highlights and color fidelity/skintones. Especially with new color science.

Can't wait for tests.
 
So if I understand correctly we need to use high ISO on Helium about 1280 and ND of course to protection in highlights if we are shooting outdoor in the daylight, and our shadows with 1280 ISO will not be so clear in the shadows but we don't have much shadows in daylight in sunny day for example, but when we are shooting in low light for example in the studio we need to use less ISO 320, and we are getting clear shadows? Is it correct? but actually it is sound very easy) Must be some secret about Dragon) I mean Why we need Dragon in this case if we have ND)
 
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This is why I was thinking this was a cool approach. With a higher base ISO, imagine you are shooting outside with lots of ND at 1280 ISO. You go indoors, and take the ND off, and stay at 1280 ISO. You still have clean shadows, and can see in low light better. So the point of "pushing the image, or starving the sensor for light" starts later. You don't have to lower the ISO indoors. Infact, I have been reading that even 3200 ISO is pretty dang clean.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I think Skintone OLPF is where Helium will have most magic.
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Maybe so, but I'm excited to see it with the Carbon 1, which I think will be the OLPF that lives in my helium brain unless for some reason I need to change it.
 
This happens every upgrade..when we went from scarlet to Epic-MX people were pissed. This will always happen so jump in on the camera you want for what you need to do and don't look back i guess. There is always something better every year 3 years etc. no one will have the perfect camera unless its perfect for you. RED One people had a fit but it's still here selling and being used like the others. the said they would never go pro res but guess what? now people argue RAW vs PRO RES.
 
Louis Maddalena said:
Maybe so, but I'm excited to see it with the Carbon 1, which I think will be the OLPF that lives in my helium brain unless for some reason I need to change it.
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True - doesn't Kippertie make a Skintone flavor of Carbon?

Yeah
 
I haven't kept up with the various upgrade paths or straight to Helium paths, and I confess all this helium has made me light-headed. I have a WEAPON CF that I will probably switch from the 8k VV sensor to the 8k Helium sensor. Figured that with my RAVEN would be enough. But the more I think about it the more I am intrigued with the Epic W.

Can anyone get me up-to-date on just what the Epic W will be (Helium 8k?) and what is the least expensive path to get one? (Jarred said any Scarlet W reserved before Oct 11 is eligible for the Scarlet W to Epic upgrade... is this the best money path to Epic W?)
 
From what I can guess (with the help from the Stormtrooper specs at 300MB/s), Epic-W should be 225MB/s so frame rates would be:

~45FPS @ 8KFF
~56FPS @ 6KFF
 
Chris Niswonger said:
From what I can guess (with the help from the Stormtrooper specs at 300MB/s), Epic-W should be 225MB/s so frame rates would be:

~45FPS @ 8KFF
~56FPS @ 6KFF
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Weapon MG is 225MB/s, and just like Epic Dragon (which is lower bitrate at 200MB/s max) can do 75 fps at 6K Full Frame and 100 fps at 6K 2.4:1. I'd be pretty surprised if Epic-W couldn't keep up with those 6K frame rates. Lower FPS above 6K, sure, but at 6K, lower than Epic Dragon? I doubt it
 
Elsie N said:
I haven't kept up with the various upgrade paths or straight to Helium paths...

Can anyone get me up-to-date on just what the Epic W will be (Helium 8k?) and what is the least expensive path to get one? (Jarred said any Scarlet W reserved before Oct 11 is eligible for the Scarlet W to Epic upgrade... is this the best money path to Epic W?)
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yes, existing SW reservation +10K is cheapest route to Epic-W
 
Man I want to see what it will look like. I remember when red had an idea to offered different colors on your epic but it never happened , I guess its was too expensive for custom orders.
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
Weapon MG is 225MB/s, and just like Epic Dragon (which is lower bitrate at 200MB/s max) can do 75 fps at 6K Full Frame and 100 fps at 6K 2.4:1. I'd be pretty surprised if Epic-W couldn't keep up with those 6K frame rates. Lower FPS above 6K, sure, but at 6K, lower than Epic Dragon? I doubt it
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Oh yes I forgot the variances in compression ratios. You are right!
 
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