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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic-W

Christoffer Glans said:
Haha :) But I'm also wondering if a white body would be better, for say heat dissipation. It's not good for reflections, but for very hot environments, wouldn't a white body be better? Say desert work?
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Having been filming with the KineMAX in the Negev Desert (Israel - Jordan border area) for the last few weeks, with external temps from 39c-45c, and the internal camera temp sitting between 69c - 72c, I definitely would appreciate any help lowering the core temp through the camera design itself. The camera is keeping up with the heat solidly, but I do worry a bit about cooking the sensor. Since my base is in South East China, where it is also freaking hot, having a "Storm Trooper" option for better performance in high heat / direct sunlight would be a nice incentive to invest in Helium. I just hope there will be better ISO performance, less compression (through faster media, on par with my Samsung 850 Pro SSDs that I use on the KineMAX, for starters), and at least equivalent Epic Dragon / Weapon MG frame rate performance -- my little wishlist :)
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
Having been filming with the KineMAX in the Negev Desert (Israel - Jordan border area) for the last few weeks, with external temps from 39c-45c, and the internal camera temp sitting between 69c - 72c, I definitely would appreciate any help lowering the core temp through the camera design itself. The camera is keeping up with the heat solidly, but I do worry a bit about cooking the sensor. Since my base is in South East China, where it is also freaking hot, having a "Storm Trooper" option for better performance in high heat / direct sunlight would be a nice incentive to invest in Helium. I just hope there will be better ISO performance, less compression (through faster media, on par with my Samsung 850 Pro SSDs that I use on the KineMAX, for starters), and at least equivalent Epic Dragon / Weapon MG frame rate performance -- my little wishlist :)
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Sorry if this is off topic, but could you please elaborate a little your experience (outside of shooting in desert) with Kinefinity and Kinemax? Also IQ compare to Red?
Probably there are other folks like me who are desperately waiting for their Scarlet-W, and thus starting to look for alternatives. Kinefinity Terra specs are intriguing.
 
I aways get a kick out of people discussing the color of paint on their cameras. If you don't like the color on your camera, take it apart, and PAINT it. :001_tongue:
 
Scot Yount said:
I aways get a kick out of people discussing the color of paint on their cameras. If you don't like the color on your camera, take it apart, and PAINT it. :001_tongue:
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"I see a red cam and I want to paint it black" :tongue_smilie:
 
Thai Christen said:
Sorry if this is off topic, but could you please elaborate a little your experience (outside of shooting in desert) with Kinefinity and Kinemax? Also IQ compare to Red?
Probably there are other folks like me who are desperately waiting for their Scarlet-W, and thus starting to look for alternatives. Kinefinity Terra specs are intriguing.
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I'll keep it on topic by adding that I'm reading and contributing to this thread out of interest in switching to Epic-W. The KineMAX is greatly underrated, although like any camera it has its limitations. Dragon is more usable at higher ISOs. I prefer the look of KineMAX at ISO 200 at 6K, especially their "KC Neutral" LUT, but that's just subjective. Usable KineMAX high frame rate is limited to 4K WS 100fps (it also does higher frame rates such as 225fps 2K at S16 crop, but it's unusable from aliasing problems). Dragon is obviously able to do 6K WS 100fps, which is a huge advantage over KineMAX/Terra in my opinion. KineMAX records 6K KRW at 3:1, Dragon does 6K R3D at 4:1. KineMAX is soon to get a firmware upgrade to do 6K ProRes with whatever LUT you want (we can already use whatever LUT we want, but no full resolution ProRes just yet). KineMAX has a great advantage (for me at least) in that it has not only its own "KineMAG" media but also can use 3rd party SSDs, such as the high performing Samsung 850 Pro. KineMAX can record lossless/uncompresed DNG at 4K and lower (I shoot KRW anyway). Rolling shutter on KineMAX is much worse in normal shooting modes compared with Dragon, although KineMAX also has a nice "High Speed / Sports" mode (even working at 24/25fps, all the way to 225fps in 2K or my personal limit of 100fps 4K WS) which nearly eliminates the rolling shutter. All in all, the KineMAX is no slouch at all, but I still want higher usable ISO and higher res 100fps at 6K WS. I really, really don't want to give up all the extra benefits that KineMAX has over Dragon/Weapon/Helium/? although I'm just addicted to magnificent images, and I got to feed the monkey. Epic-W looks very promising as a step up for me.
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
I'll keep it on topic by adding that I'm reading and contributing to this thread out of interest in switching to Epic-W. The KineMAX is greatly underrated, although like any camera it has its limitations. Dragon is more usable at higher ISOs. I prefer the look of KineMAX at ISO 200 at 6K, especially their "KC Neutral" LUT, but that's just subjective. Usable KineMAX high frame rate is limited to 4K WS 100fps (it also does higher frame rates such as 225fps 2K at S16 crop, but it's unusable from aliasing problems). Dragon is obviously able to do 6K WS 100fps, which is a huge advantage over KineMAX/Terra in my opinion. KineMAX records 6K KRW at 3:1, Dragon does 6K R3D at 4:1. KineMAX is soon to get a firmware upgrade to do 6K ProRes with whatever LUT you want (we can already use whatever LUT we want, but no full resolution ProRes just yet). KineMAX has a great advantage (for me at least) in that it has not only its own "KineMAG" media but also can use 3rd party SSDs, such as the high performing Samsung 850 Pro. KineMAX can record lossless/uncompresed DNG at 4K and lower (I shoot KRW anyway). Rolling shutter on KineMAX is much worse in normal shooting modes compared with Dragon, although KineMAX also has a nice "High Speed / Sports" mode (even working at 24/25fps, all the way to 225fps in 2K or my personal limit of 100fps 4K WS) which nearly eliminates the rolling shutter. All in all, the KineMAX is no slouch at all, but I still want higher usable ISO and higher res 100fps at 6K WS. I really, really don't want to give up all the extra benefits that KineMAX has over Dragon/Weapon/Helium/? although I'm just addicted to magnificent images, and I got to feed the monkey. Epic-W looks very promising as a step up for me.
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Thanks for your extended elaboration on Kinemax. I try to keep it on topic too. If the price is right for Epic-W I would jump up from Scarlet-W, no doubt (already put down 18K for SW kit). However, considering I have been waiting for almost 8 months for SW, switching to Epic-W could mean at least another 8 months to a year (or more) waiting.
No thanks! I need a camera I can work with now. And it doesn't have to be the latest and greatest.
Back to Kinemax, what is the highest usable ISO you would rate? How about DR?
Sure, I am aware Kinemax lacks in hispeed mode. However, my shooting style seldom requires more than 60fps. What interest me more is anamorphic. I have some old Kowas lying around. So 5K 4:3 @ 60fps would be nice. Well, I would already be happy with 4K 4:3 @ 60fps. Not sure the new Terra 5/6K does it.
 
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Christoffer Glans said:
Haha :) But I'm also wondering if a white body would be better, for say heat dissipation. It's not good for reflections, but for very hot environments, wouldn't a white body be better? Say desert work?
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White reflects heat better but dissipates it worse. If the camera is hotter than its surroundings I think black keeps it coolest. Blackbodies are the ideal radiation emitters.
 
Anton Shavlik said:
White reflects heat better but dissipates it worse. If the camera is hotter than its surroundings I think black keeps it coolest. Blackbodies are the ideal radiation emitters.
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Makes sense... and is probably backed up by the choice of Arab desert nomads wearing black when in the desert.
 
Really? First of all they announced a new case for Red owners to upgrade and when the new sensor comes out they will only need to update the sensor. Almost everyone leaped to a weapon. now that the sensor is coming you want to complain about how much you spent on your new case? then dog others for waiting on the new sensor and camera packages. everyone should know that the games changes all the time and your great deals are the ones you chose. we could order am Epic -w today and next month a new camera could appear, that's the chance we take and the choice you made. Right after we got the Epic-MX the dragon dropped. Bottom line i chose the MX I could have waited but years go by and also your dreams. Find your deal and go for it.
 
I don't see Red structuring the upgrade paths to not include proper price scaling. Meaning the guys that already payed for the dragon update/weapon will have to pay much less than the MX guys who didn't. Im sure it will come out to be almost an even cost factor from each individual upgrade tier. I assume in total it will cost a little bit more for the early dragon upgraders, but take in account the fact that they got to use dragon for a while to make up for that expense and that seems fair to me. Either way this is all speculation until Red announces something, anything, cmon anything about this new Helium and Epic-w offering. Red you there? Hello
 
You really can't say whats what...If you bought a 2017 truck when they first came out and it cost you 20,000.00 and i got it 6 months later the same truck for 15,000.00 how could you get mad and say that's not fair?? Product has to make way for the new and newer, you buy weapon some may cancel order etc. Epic-W comes out but they still have weapon Dragons what do you think they will do? Epic-W drops 3 months later then 8K something drops so now they have left over weapons and Epic-W's what do you think they will do? Drop prices make deals. Each camera has a cost and a loss but to sit on them and not sell for lower is not good business. This is how I see it and not speaking for Red.
 
Why would someone buy an Epic -W 7K when the others are 8K? unless they are coming from a scarlet. So many cameras are being created with different body styles for directors can we get a custom Epic W body style like the 35mm film cameras?
 
Aaron michaels said:
Why would someone buy an Epic -W 7K when the others are 8K? unless they are coming from a scarlet. So many cameras are being created with different body styles for directors can we get a custom Epic W body style like the 35mm film cameras?
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Assuming s35 is the smallest sensor they'll ever offer. And being able to do 8K at s35. I don't see them going s16. 6k or 7k whatever.
I don't see them protecting existing customers either. Too bad MG folks.

Jarred said Epic-W = helium.
Helium = 8K.
 
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Milano Questa said:
Assuming s35 is the smallest sensor they'll ever offer. And being able to do 8K at s35. I don't see them going s16. 6k or 7k whatever.
I don't see them protecting existing customers either. Too bad MG folks.

Jarred said Epic-W = helium.
Helium = 8K.
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It will be interesting to see if the Epic-W is going to be 6K, similar to Weapon MG as hinted in Jarreds latest post. It kinda confuses me when Weapon Helium is 8K/S35, Epic-W then has to have a smaller sensor than the current Epic Dragon with similar resolution, or...?
 
Robert Gustafsson said:
It will be interesting to see if the Epic-W is going to be 6K, similar to Weapon MG as hinted in Jarreds latest post. It kinda confuses me when Weapon Helium is 8K/S35, Epic-W then has to have a smaller sensor than the current Epic Dragon with similar resolution, or...?
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I took from Jarred's post that it is similar in price and processing power, not resolution. My take is that they are going to discontinue MG and basically replace it with Epic-W 8K.
 
Brody_B said:
I took from Jarred's post that it is similar in price and processing power, not resolution. My take is that they are going to discontinue MG and basically replace it with Epic-W 8K.
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Jarred talked about Epic-W and Weapon Helium. I guess the Weapon Helium is 8K with a 29mm large sensor, the one they already sold, and the Epic-W will be pure S35 which will be a little less than 7k with an Helium 3.65 micron pixel. I also think that they will keep the MG because not everybody likes the extra sharpness or the huge data associated with 8k.
 
Jarred Land said:
Weapon MG is actually in kinda a cool spot. It can go "Sideways" to Epic-W Helium , or upwards to Weapon Helium.
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sam karr said:
Jarred talked about Epic-W and Weapon Helium. I guess the Weapon Helium is 8K with a 29mm large sensor, the one they already sold, and the Epic-W will be pure S35 which will be a little less than 7k with an Helium 3.65 micron pixel. I also think that they will keep the MG because not everybody likes the extra sharpness or the huge data associated with 8k.
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That's a good guess Sam. It will be interesting to see what specs the Epic-W will have upon release.
 
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