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Epic-W vs Scarlet-W: Crop and Frame Rates

Tony Reale

Tony Reale

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So like many, I had my preorder in for the Scarlet-W the day after it was announced and like many I had yet to receive it...and like many I upgraded to the Epic-W which I am still waiting on. I was curious to visualize the resolution and crop difference between the Scarlet-W and Epic-W so I used RED's tool and Photoshopped some sizes together.

First off, I'm coming from the FS700 & FS5 so I knew that at 8K, the E-W's sensor size was larger than Super 35 and the S-W at 5K. But 6K is where I will be doing a lot of shooting on the E-W for 48, 60 & 75fps. The E-W 6K crop compared to S35 or the S-W @ 5K doesn't seem as big of a deal. The bigger difference is at 4K for 120 fps. The 4K crop of the E-W is much smaller than that of the S-W. I will still have my FS700 or FS5 for 120 & 240 fps so I think I'll just use the Sonys for anything more than 96 fps.

So all that said, I'm still sticking with the Epic-W. I hope this helps anyone who was trying to wrap their head around the crops like I was.

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yeah, this is what stopped me dead in my tracks, a lot of time im using the red format for heavy vfx spots and commercials, where i have to do plate and lock off shots at 23.98fps and then at 60-96fps, and i cant have a crop that changes the FOV. also almost all my tv work is a mandated 4khd maximum resolution raw, just to be able to do 5k once in a while it takes 3 phone calls to get it approved.
i think the camera for me one day would be the 8k camera that shoots vista vision or large format, but 4k would bring it close to a s35 size frame.
it seems like a great camera and a great deal for people that deal with their own post, but if you are in the "system" like me, it didnt really make sense.
 
Probably a silly question but how would the Epic-W crop compare to my Scarlet X?
 
Lol. Thanks for all the links. I was on Phil's site but got a little lost in there trying to find the right tool.
 
hey guys I am uploading a video right now, 8k, 7k, 6k, 5k, 4k, 2k will post for an idea of what a 19mm lens looks like at about 6 feet away in my spare bedroom after a long day work playing guitar
 
here you go for crop
g14HTdU7p3s

https://youtu.be/g14HTdU7p3s

terrible light, w for crop reference only. 1 small incandescent light and small eye light. Rode video mic into v lock io for first clip then all internals


Edits go 8k, 7k, 6k, 5k, 4k, 2k all 8:1 3200 iso, RWG, Gamma4


19mm leica r at 2.8
 
How could you compare an FS5/FS700 with the Epic-W camera platform? Are you only concerned about the lenses you have readily available for the Epic-W?
 
Steve DiMaggio said:
here you go for crop
g14HTdU7p3s

https://youtu.be/g14HTdU7p3s

terrible light, w for crop reference only. 1 small incandescent light and small eye light. Rode video mic into v lock io for first clip then all internals




Edits go 8k, 7k, 6k, 5k, 4k, 2k all 8:1 3200 iso, RWG, Gamma4


19mm leica r at 2.8
Click to expand...

thanks!
yeah the last 3 looked to have pretty big grain and artifacting, but maybe that is youtube, maybe it was lack of light.
that a lot of crop factors! puts it into perspective, thank you for posting!
 
Same situation but i've made my peace with crop factors.

I also come from FS700+RAW and know the system like the back of my hand, i've ripped apart those DNGs and know exactly what's in them. That combo is probably the best price performance around at the moment, i'd probably take that over FS7 for example.

FS700 120fps is compressed don't forget and not that well compressed and also there's a 6 second limit. Now i've never needed any more than that and i don't use slow mo that often.

The data rates off that at 4K RAW are around the same as the E-W anyway.

But this is a different workflow level, and that's what was always missing. The biggest issue with the FS700+RAW is tonality, the compromises are all about bit depth, especially in the shadows. Needing to rate the cameras differently and expose in post.

The crop factor is really about lenses.

I regularly use a 12mm on the FS700, now i doubt it will work on the E-W (Leica M mount which i have, but i suspect the lens sticks out too much at the back). 12mm on that is roughly an 18mm fov (on full frame). It's a great FOV. So looking around, there's a new 12-24 sigma due out. That seems very well matched. And an Irix 11mm soon. These are all full frame and would cover the image circle. But anything less than 11mm - and it's not going to happen.

I have actually shot 12mm on full frame before, it's an amazing fov at times but i would need, what an 8mm to get that? That's tough! Aside from the arri master prime, which i think is 9mm rectilinear, i can't think of anything else.

So availability of wide angles are the biggest caveat for me. I have a contax zeiss set, but the widest i have is 18mm and the 15mm version isn't really all that good. So that's a question mark for me.

You can hit 40fps in 7.5 WS, for a lot of slow mo and in the UK (25p) that's not bad either. Has a slight dreamy quality about it, i rarely use 100+ just because it's super slow, whereas 50p is nicely slow.

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
Same situation but i've made my peace with crop factors.

I also come from FS700+RAW and know the system like the back of my hand, i've ripped apart those DNGs and know exactly what's in them. That combo is probably the best price performance around at the moment, i'd probably take that over FS7 for example.

FS700 120fps is compressed don't forget and not that well compressed and also there's a 6 second limit. Now i've never needed any more than that and i don't use slow mo that often.

The data rates off that at 4K RAW are around the same as the E-W anyway.

But this is a different workflow level, and that's what was always missing. The biggest issue with the FS700+RAW is tonality, the compromises are all about bit depth, especially in the shadows. Needing to rate the cameras differently and expose in post.

The crop factor is really about lenses.

I regularly use a 12mm on the FS700, now i doubt it will work on the E-W (Leica M mount which i have, but i suspect the lens sticks out too much at the back). 12mm on that is roughly an 18mm fov (on full frame). It's a great FOV. So looking around, there's a new 12-24 sigma due out. That seems very well matched. And an Irix 11mm soon. These are all full frame and would cover the image circle. But anything less than 11mm - and it's not going to happen.

I have actually shot 12mm on full frame before, it's an amazing fov at times but i would need, what an 8mm to get that? That's tough! Aside from the arri master prime, which i think is 9mm rectilinear, i can't think of anything else.

So availability of wide angles are the biggest caveat for me. I have a contax zeiss set, but the widest i have is 18mm and the 15mm version isn't really all that good. So that's a question mark for me.

You can hit 40fps in 7.5 WS, for a lot of slow mo and in the UK (25p) that's not bad either. Has a slight dreamy quality about it, i rarely use 100+ just because it's super slow, whereas 50p is nicely slow.

cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

There's this particular wide angle that I think will be very popular with the W/ Heliums...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...lc5QHolRBQxoCsWrw_wcB&c3api=2572,113041916107

Curious to see if anyone has got one of these and tried it...
 
Sergio Perez said:
There's this particular wide angle that I think will be very popular with the W/ Heliums...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...lc5QHolRBQxoCsWrw_wcB&c3api=2572,113041916107

Curious to see if anyone has got one of these and tried it...
Click to expand...


It's APS-C so i don't know what the image circle would be at 8K and the wider lenses tend to have smaller image circles. I'd be very surprised if you'd get 8mm out of it but it is an interesting option that i missed as it was APS-C, thanks for that. I shall look closer. I suspect it's a forerunner of the 12-24mm for full frame.

cheers
Paul
 
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