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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic-W Test - low light, rolloff and lens comparison (Cooke, super baltar, leica)

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Jason Han

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https://vimeo.com/188865905

Tested my Epic-W yesterday with some Cooke anamorphic, leica summilux, and super baltar. The low light was no joke, it's uncomparable. Shot most of the night scenes at 2500asa. Did side by side with Dragon and Alexa, learned a lot about the camera. Didn't have time to add the other camera footage. One thing we noticed was some really bad chroma aberration on darker skin with the Cooke 32mm, the Alexa also had a bit of CA with the same lens but not as much. Could be that the lens needed service, not sure.

p5UbdE5.jpg

TAekfT2.jpg
 
those are some serious chromatic abrasions. I saw another thread earlier with a helium test with similar chromatic abrasions they said they dont normally see with their lenses. Can you confirm those artifacts are that strong with a different camera/sensor? Because now I am curious.
 
Solomon Nero said:
those are some serious chromatic abrasions. I saw another thread earlier with a helium test with similar chromatic abrasions they said they dont normally see with their lenses. Can you confirm those artifacts are that strong with a different camera/sensor? Because now I am curious.
Click to expand...

Had a back and forth with Jason via Vimeo about it.

You'll notice the Cooke anamorphic and Super Baltar primes exhibit this the most while the footage shot with the Leica Summilux-C will barely if at all exhibit the chromatic aberration. This is more to do with the optical design and contrast ratio, which is common DP related stuff really.

He also experienced the CA with the Alexa, which is common for the Cookes, which I think are lovely lenses btw.

Solutions.

DRAGONcolor2 enhances blues through violets a good amount. Switching to DRAGONcolor will desaturate the CA to less noticeable levels. There's additional color developments on the horizon in a few weeks as well for RED shooters that may lend a hand here.

Real solution. Stopping the lens down by 2-3 stops is usually the key for spherical and vintage lenses to avoid CA at maximum and wider apertures.
 
From my experience - this is a combination of both the color science (which enhances the color palette) and the sheer resolution of the sensor - the later being the key contributor. IMHO it really comes down to the fact the these sensors resolve so much more in the same scenarios. At lower resolution (and I do not mean cropping the Helium - I mean using sensor with less resolution for the same area of exposure) the CA is simply blended with both sides of the high contrast areas and therefore not so well defined. At 8K we resolve so much more that we clearly pickup these lens imperfections in dedicated pixels without any blending. And this is then enhanced by the color science. Bottom line - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Helium - the fault lies with the specific lenses. This simply comes down to the fact that the sensor is now so good that it picks up all the little imperfections in great detail and therefore won't let the lenses of the hook so easily. We really need new generation lenses specifically designed for these high resolutions. That's my take...

:sifone: Peter
 
Phil Holland;[URL="tel:1681686" said:
1681686[/URL]]

DRAGONcolor2 enhances blues through violets a good amount. Switching to DRAGONcolor will desaturate the CA to less noticeable levels. There's additional color developments on the horizon in a few weeks as well for RED shooters that may lend a hand here.
Click to expand...

this is what I'm seeing...I noticed this when color grading a film my friend Shawn shot, and again in a shot for a doc in shooting using the raven for the first time. Thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense now
 
Has a ton to do with mapping out of gamut spectral response that sensor now sees more of (IMO)...

Yes the CA was always there, but with the spectral mapping where it is right now we can see more of it.

Becomes less apparent with Skintone Highlight OLPF IMO as well.

Worst optical offender I've seen thus far is the Tokina 14-20 with any tungsten light source in frame... mitigated by not shooting a light source with this lens.
 
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yep, also dragon1 is good to, I posted the original thread about this with my milvus lens, I have not had an issue after use RWG and staying away from shooting wide open into light, I was kind of just putzing around trying different stuff the day I got it, glad I asked about it

Steve
 
I've tested mine with CP.2 lenses, Canon tse 24 mkii, and canon 100mm macro. All wide open, against tungsten and led light source. No CA so far. I used the dragoncolor2.

Got a separate question though. Mine is not showing RedWide Gamut on camera. I've been using RedWideGamut on Resolve. Do I need a camera update to get the RedWide Gamut on camera? Anyone else missing RedWideGamut on their Epic W?
 
I will check when I get home, I did have to update my firmware when I got my camera
 
Jacob Ryan said:
I've tested mine with CP.2 lenses, Canon tse 24 mkii, and canon 100mm macro. All wide open, against tungsten and led light source. No CA so far. I used the dragoncolor2.

?
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Thats weird, because I definitely did see some of this with our 100mm L macro.
 
I just received my Weapon Helium and am noticing it big time on Canon L 35mm and that was with dragoncolour.

Only first turn on so will be testing properly over the weekend.
 
Jacob Ryan said:
Do I need a camera update to get the RedWide Gamut on camera? Anyone else missing RedWideGamut on their Epic W?
Click to expand...
You will need a FW update for your camera, once they release a version with RWG in it. Currently only available in software (RCX, etc...)
 
Jacob Ryan said:
Care to share a screen grab?
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Sure. I'll pull some R3Ds tomorrow.

Generally speaking, I'm seeing the issue pop up with more severity on our "sharper" lenses. Let me admit that we have not tested with any high-end cine lenses yet. No need to beat around the bush.

I've been using our EF Canon L and Sigma Art lenses. Both of which frankly, have been solid performers for budget glass. The Sigma Arts, which have been sharp and solid on other bodies, show this issue heavily -- At least under DragonColor2.

Using DragonColor or RWG (in RedCineX) reduces the CA/fringing by a significant margin.

To replicate the CA/fringing issue, I've been shooting low across a black, high detail texture which is edge lit from behind. Think speaker grilles, for example. The back-lit highlights on the fine texture tend to quickly show that purple CA/fringing. It's visible on the DSMC2 7" touch.

Given how much the different color space settings are affecting the fringing, I think this is just a temporary issue. For the most part. To echo Nick's sentiments, I'm confident this will be pretty much tamed in upcoming firmware, once the sensor is a little more tuned.

And one final disclaimer: I'm totally willing to accept that our glass has a little CA, if you pixel peep. But, there is definitely something else going on here.
 
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