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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic W Rolling Shutter

I though that RS speed is tied to speed of the sensor read out and not the shutter or frame rate. So it ought to be based solely on amount of pixels being read. I haven't seen anything quite as bad as the sample but then people rarely pan left and right.

But i would have thought 5K would be *better* than 8K due to reading out less?

Whilst i do see RS it's not in the same league as my 4K A7sII.

I'm curious what others think, i haven't used any other Reds to compare too, but plenty of other cameras. This seems in line with everything else.

I've shot FF 8K wobbling the camera around. 6K 100fps and 7K 40ish. I've chased kids around and i'm pretty sensitive to RS and i don't have any issues with the footage. I have a proper shoot over the next few days so i've just been messing around, getting used to everything and trying different things out.

cheers
Paul
 
After reading this thread I was concerned that the Epic-W 's rolling shuttler would be a problem......I set up EW and the Epic Dragon side by side and tested for rolling shutter.....Looks exactly the same on both. I've never really had a problem with the Dragon.
 
really? That's odd. There is also small lag on the menus. Im fine with that. But if you're saying that you have no issues with RS at all... makes me wonder. can you post your test? Thank you
 
Perhaps different firmware builds?
 
sounds like very different results amongst posters
also what lenses? any with motion compensation?
 
Best way to quickly test RS is film a fan for the propeller effect then shoot same test with a camera wih same shutter speed & fps & timebase and side by side the video. Someone did this once for Scarlet MX vs Epic MX & it cleared showed why you shouldn't mix the two cams for stereoscopic work.

Craig Lees
UK
 
I shot the whole day yesterday, fast, slow, all sorts. I can see RS but nothing i would worry about compared to other cameras i have or have used.
The posters example movie looks terrible, so that is really odd and i'd suggest somethings up with that.

Maybe the OP can do a test of 8K vs 6K for example. Is this a full image issue compared to WS? (Most of my stuff has been WS)

Of course in an artificial pan left to right, that will show the RS clearly in a way that normal shooting probably doesn't. I'm also sure that we have different levels of what we consider acceptable as well.

My test is very simple. Hold the camera, move it around like you would and does it feel 'solid'? The E-W does. The A7sII doesn't. It's night and day.

My menus are a bit slow too, i just assumed that's the way they are?

cheers
Paul
 
When the Motion Mount is in Square or Soft mode, there is no rolling shutter at all. I tried it out with a 1200mm lens doing whip pans!
 
Paul, thank you for the comment. I have been considering the motion mount for help in minimizing rolling shutter effects in sports movement.
 
Yeah, John. The Motion Mount is very useful. It has a few limitations to be aware of, though. It vertically polarizes the light coming through it, so if you have screens/monitors/phones etc. in your frame, it might present problems. You need a Quarter Wave Retarder from Schneider instead of a polarizer if you want to cut reflections, etc. When in square or soft shutter mode you're limited to a 1.2 ND, so in some situations you might need additional ND if you're counting on a global shutter for your shot. Some fast lenses get a weird smear effect to the bokeh when they're wide open, so I'd say the fastest part of their range might be less useable.

I always change the setting to 1/3 of a stop steps, then re-map the ND up and ND down to the brightness buttons of my monitor so adjustments are very quick and easy.
 
I've juste received my Epic W and during the first test i notice a huge RS and i'm trying to find in this forum any comment and other owner experience on that...
I will try to rent a motion mount to do some more tests and hope this help.
If i have some time left i will post a few tests of RS
To my eyes it seems worse than Epic dragon i owned.
 
So, we win some, we lose some I suppose? Helium's higher resolution, lower noise, and higher sensitivity at the cost of the rolling shutter and slightly lower dynamic range versus the Dragon...
 
The motion mount can only turn low rolling shutter into global, and in my testing it cannot make 8k24fps 180 shutter global in either soft or square shutter, the readout is just too slow. Around 100 degree shutter it does work.

I also feel 8k is worse than dragon 6k, but not a deal breaker. Handheld might find more issues though.

Edit: I would add that the motion mount, when it fails to make things global, should be turned to ND only. When the sensor cannot keep up the mount does not improve the shutter, it splits the frames temporally so the top half is frame one and the bottom is split between frame one and two, like a double exposure in your motion blur.
 
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Louis Maddalena said:
shutter angle does have an impact on rolling shutter. It will be more apparent if the shutter is "open" for longer.
Click to expand...

Actually it's usually the other way around. Longer shutter opening tends to blur and obscure skewed edges more in high motion images, making rolling shutter skew less visible. Fast shutter speeds tend to give you sharp edges even in high motion so you can easily see skewed verticals and edges etc.
 
Louis Maddalena said:
shutter angle does have an impact on rolling shutter. It will be more apparent if the shutter is "open" for longer.
Click to expand...
Looking at it another way - what settings did people use for 96 frames per second on Epic W that worked well? I thought you could also do wide screen 6K 96fps?
So shutter (time or angle), compression rate, aperture, iso
Compression rate for high frame rate is pretty high - have people felt it is high enough quality for features? Assume answer will be yes - examples of EpicW hfr use in features?
IS it better or worse than Raven 96 fps at 4.5K? If not at least same that would be very bad since I want to use Epic W ~equivalently to Raven for high frame rate.
 
What firmware you guys have? Since I updated my epic-w to 6.3.78 I've notice the RS more than before. Don't know if this a placebo effect, but it seems so. Here's a link of me testing for RS (I think it was with a 40mm lens): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_05eNIekYGaVDk5cGhyVDJ6VFU
If someone could have a look and see if it's better or worse than what you're seeing, I would appreciate it. Tnks.

edit: Someone asked for a 6K WS 100FPS, here it is. I was holding the camera and moving it pretty fast for most of the time: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_05eNIekYGaM1V5ZUpwTFVpZ2c

BTW both shots were encoded to h264.
 
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