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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic vs 5D3 Raw Side by Side

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that may be true but seems like a philisophical rousing to me. If one doesnt know the difference in resolution/colorspace and Dr difference in the two formats then perhaps he hasnt spent time in post dealing with 1080 4:2:2 and thats all im saying. Not to mention all the other above mention features ie FPS etc..
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Terry, critically explain to me the differences in these two images (without typing in condescending caps).

Mike
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Are you certain you looked at the 1080 crops (opened the image in a separate window)

The difference is huge.

Anyhow.
There are uses for bodies that are not DSLR functionwise.

And if you find a tool you are happy with, why not use it? :)
 
Zack McTee said:
You should preview Michael's work before making comments like that. He obviously works with many different formats, and is incredibly talented. Unfortunately his film degree also came with a philosophy degree, so he's equally good at trying to answer all the worlds most difficult questions :)
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Just had a look, and again if seems DSLR serves you purpose. Good on ya mate
 
Zack McTee said:
You should preview Michael's work before making comments like that. He obviously works with many different formats, and is incredibly talented. Unfortunately his film degree also came with a philosophy degree, so he's equally good at trying to answer all the worlds most difficult questions :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking out my site, Zack!
 
Zack McTee said:
You should preview Michael's work before making comments like that. He obviously works with many different formats, and is incredibly talented. Unfortunately his film degree also came with a philosophy degree, so he's equally good at trying to answer all the worlds most difficult questions :)
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Not sure what the question is though.....if I don't see a difference and don't need the extra features, why spend the extra money?
 
I have Epic and 5D3 here. We use both like both for their strengths. The ML firmware is very welcome and I think they are doing great work.

Given all of the obvious issues which have been raised, My biggest concern is skew, I don't see how if or how it can be improved.
 
paul schefz said:
Not sure what the question is though.....if I don't see a difference and don't need the extra features, why spend the extra money?
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Then why not just buy a 5D and be done with it....

Not sure why this is even a discussion. If you strictly only ever want your material delivered in 1080p and are fine with the frame rates and features, then what's the point of owning an Epic? Common sense has to come into play somewhere...

Can this thread be closed? There's already a thread here on the hack with this same test and plenty of conversation...

If the 5D suits you, then you'd be a moron to pay $30,000 for a tool you won't personally gain any benefit from. End of story
 
A big difference is how good you can use it on set. SDI output, timecode input, audio input, pl or ef lenses. Adjusting all parameters with ease. That kind of stuff is worth alot
 
paul schefz said:
I downloaded the files as well and I am not sure I see the point....the 2.5k and 4k black magic provide better files and are the same price as a 5diii (more or less) and are much better for shooting motion IMO.....
i think it is great that this option is now out there but at best it compares with a scarlet and not even well at that....
I am a still shooter first and come from the 5dii and it still is a great still camera and a very limited motion camera....the epic is an incredible motion camera and provides very, very nice stills....and dragon will be even better because the stills will be better (for me) then any dslr.....on top of being a crazy motion camera....just no comparison....
if all you want is raw HD video....there are several great options out now and I don't think the 5dIii is necessarily the best...
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There are no 2.5k MFT and 4k black magic cameras, just the promise of them ...so how would you know?
 
Michael, to answer your questions.

We owe both an Epic and a 5D MarkIII. For a short film coming up in a month I'm gonna choose MKIII for it's form factor (given the ML release is already stable). For a feature film I'm preparing I'm choosing Epic no doubt: ease of use, reframing, fps, future proofing and most of all, simple postproduction workflow make it a must.

I can handle the headaches that the MKIII is going to give me (you know it will) in a 4 minutes short film. To do that in a feature film would be suicidal. Simply to have to transcode all the footage from RAW to DNG and then to different formats for editing is a big problem in a long project.
 
I really like this part from the link:

"The fact that it can keep up with the much more expensive EPIC downscaled to 1080p shows how good the sensor is on the Mark III"

Thats like saying that "the fact that 80's Lada can keep up with the much more expensive '13 Nissan GTR slowed down to 30 MPH shows how good the engine is on that old Russian Lada"

And then there is your question:

MichaelJQuill said:
If I'm only concerned with final image quality, someone tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic when I can get the exact same image on a 5D3?
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The answer is very simple...

If:
- 1080P is your max delivery format
- the two linked images are "exactly the same" according to you
- you are not concerned with potential workflow issues and camera reliability
- you are not concerned with the (IMHO) extreme rolling shutter image distortion

Then there is no point in spending $30K+ on a Epic. Period.
 
"Ummm, look at some media on a UHD monitor. Makes HD look like SD of yesteryear."

Right. So movie audiences will be packed a few feet from UHD monitors in the future. That's "future proof?"

The ones today sitting in actual theaters can't tell the difference. From that distance it's moot. 800 lines is sufficient to show a movie to a group. Alexa, the 2.8k cam won best cinematography this year at the Oscars. So it's already obsolete?
 
Peter Majtan said:
I really like this part from the link:

"The fact that it can keep up with the much more expensive EPIC downscaled to 1080p shows how good the sensor is on the Mark III"

Thats like saying that "the fact that 80's Lada can keep up with the much more expensive '13 Nissan GTR slowed down to 30 MPH shows how good the engine is on that old Russian Lada"

And then there is your question:



The answer is very simple...

If:
- 1080P is your max delivery format
- the two linked images are "exactly the same" according to you
- you are not concerned with potential workflow issues and camera reliability
- you are not concerned with the (IMHO) extreme rolling shutter image distortion

Then there is no point in spending $30K+ on a Epic. Period.
Click to expand...

I agree with Peter. The biggest no go for me is the rolling shutter. Still, I think that the 5Dmk3 is a great (film) camera, especially now, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a project, where I can't afford a RED Scarlet / Epic and need a very shallow DoF.

Also, I think it's unfair to compare the 5Dmk3 with Epic's price point. Since it can't do slow motion etc., a better comparison would be the Scarlet and her price.
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Pichi,

The images look identical, DR wise. Tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic.

Mike
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Just because those two images "look identical" DR-wise according to you - not only it does not mean that they are, but more importantly, such an image might not reflect the actual DR of the respective sensors.

Official specs:

DR 11.7 - Canon 5DmkIII

DR 13.5 (18 with HDRx) - current Epic-MX
DR 16.5+ (22.5+ with HDRx) - Epic-D (Dragon)

From the early DR chart we have seen - the final DR numbers for the Dragon are likely to be higher (hence RED adding the + symbol). It has also been confirmed that the HDRx mode will stay - which adds 6 extra stops of DR at up to 1/2 the maximum frame rates respective to the image size (thats 50 FPS @ 6K and 60 FPS @ 5K)...

:sifone: Peter
 
May I ask if you have much viewing experience of properly shot 4K on a UHD monitor or movie screen? It is stunning even if you are not close to the screen, contradicting what many 'articles' are saying.
"Samsara" on the big screen was jaw dropping at 4k. Totally changed my opinion on the matter. ( I was a bit skeptical before ) It was true 4K as it was shot on 65 and sampled down to 4K.
Right now lot of existing Red footage is unfortunately not up to 4K standards. Most users here are just starting to learn what 4K looks like at full potential since the affordable monitors have only been out for a few weeks.

Joe G. said:
"Ummm, look at some media on a UHD monitor. Makes HD look like SD of yesteryear."

Right. So movie audiences will be packed a few feet from UHD monitors in the future. That's "future proof?"

The ones today sitting in actual theaters can't tell the difference. From that distance it's moot. 800 lines is sufficient to show a movie to a group. Alexa, the 2.8k cam won best cinematography this year at the Oscars. So it's already obsolete?
Click to expand...
 
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