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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC STAGE Clarification and update

I suggest we don't look a gift horse in the mouth. All of us in Stage 2 knew exactly what we were signing up for and Red don't owe us anything more than they are giving, which is already the most generous upgrade ever conceived.

No one's feeling sorry for anyone. Red are a business yet they constantly put their customer's needs before their own and make things right.

The wait is almost over and we are all going to be rewarded, big time.

Tim Duran said:
Speaking of waiting, how about sweetening the original deal since many of us are pushing the two year mark for waiting for our Epic(s). A couple of extra SSD cards and/or batteries would be a good step. Red has our scratch, we have promises. What if the prices we're all waiting for to come down so that Red can make its profit margin don't come down?

I think everyone is empathetic to Red's situation, even me. But there has to be a drop dead date or some quid pro quo from Red for us slobs who can't afford M's. As I suggested previously, give people in line who have Stage 1 or 2 position the option of paying a bit more for their Epic now and maybe toss in a sweetener in the process. The way Red has it set up now, they call the shots. They have my money (our money). They choose to make M's because the profit margin is greater while being quiet as to when we can expect our cameras. What's fair? Another two year wait? Six months more? Red's position that if you don't like it they'll refund your deposit is arrogant in my humble view.

Historically, when someone complains about the wait, many of you jump to Red's defence saying how much money they're loosing, poor Jannard, poor Red Studios, poor private jet, poor private motor coach, etc. When will you guys starting thinking about the ticket holders that have been left empty handed for far far too long?
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Tim Duran said:
Red's position that if you don't like it they'll refund your deposit is arrogant in my humble view.

Historically, when someone complains about the wait, many of you jump to Red's defence saying how much money they're loosing, poor Jannard, poor Red Studios, poor private jet, poor private motor coach, etc. When will you guys starting thinking about the ticket holders that have been left empty handed for far far too long?
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Tim, no offense, but I think you have an over-developed sense of entitlement. Red's position that they'll refund your money if you don't like the deal has always seemed to me to be exactly what their position should be.

I don't know anyone who thinks "poor Jannard," or poor anything else. And frankly, I'm offended by the suggestion. I'm shooting lovely images with my R1 while I wait for the best camera I could ever hope to own. Red will deliver when they can, and I'm OK with that.
 
I was under the impression that Jim Jannard might have become a millionaire out of all this by starting off with a billion and building a camera
 
Tim Duran said:
When will you guys starting thinking about the ticket holders that have been left empty handed for far far too long?
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Tim.. We think about it every day. We talk about it everyday. We loose sleep over it every day.

And one more time.. the margin is not greater on Epic-M's than Epic-X's... and the prices of EPIC-M's actually go up for us every week as supply of the parts we are already purchasing for 20x their normal price keep going up and up and up. Trust me.. we would much prefer to be selling EPIC-X's rather than EPIC-Ms.
 
Jarred, I bet you get tired trying to convince people that you feel bad for making us all wait.

For all of you who seem to think Red is behind on sending out X's and S's and M's for some diabolical reason, just because they can.... Well, do a little bit of research and also think about how it feels to be in there shoes.

They have this amazing product they want out on the market so people can make movies with real tools and not shitty DSLRs. They want us to be happy so stop adding more stress to them and just relax. We all understand it's taking long, but adding snooty comments every day about how you have been waiting will not speed up the process of getting the parts to make these camera. Nothing will.

I think we all feel bad that you all have put in money and have still not received a product. :-( But at this point, there is really nothing else to do.
 
Im sure Red is doing all they can about the delays in the key parts to put the cameras together. Moaning and groaning about it wont make the parts that are as Jarred said "20x" more than they were before the Japan quake, magically appear. Take a look at other companies that are making DSLR's and affected by these similar delays and you will see increases in their prices for some of these products. I don't know for sure ,but I can figure you cant just buy these parts off the shelf. Other wise RED would have built an assembly line to make just these parts long ago. And maybe they are even in that process now, who knows.
Red has been very forthcoming with info and that is to their credit.
Im very happy with my R1 and very content to wait for the prize at the end of the wait.
 
Jarred Land said:
Stage 3 will open after Stage 2 is complete and all Stage 2 Epic's have been delivered.
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Do you mean you won't take the Stage 3 orders/deposits until those Stage 2's have been delivered? Wouldn't it be beneficial to know how many more Epic X's to prepare for while the 2's are going out or are you just talking about shipping of the cameras. I thought it was all based on delivery date of your R1 no matter what stage you were in. Except maybe Stage 1's of course. The stages seemed like what arrangement you were picking with RED not a gauge of how early/much you believed in it.
 
Warren Kommers said:
Do you mean you won't take the Stage 3 orders/deposits until those Stage 2's have been delivered? Wouldn't it be beneficial to know how many more Epic X's to prepare for while the 2's are going out or are you just talking about shipping of the cameras. I thought it was all based on delivery date of your R1 no matter what stage you were in. Except maybe Stage 1's of course. The stages seemed like what arrangement you were picking with RED not a gauge of how early/much you believed in it.
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Every RED ONE owner who took delivery or changed ownership by the cutoff date had a chance to sign up for stage 2. I'm in that group partially because I knew that group would get their EPICs delivered first (not counting the tattoos/Ms, of course).

It's been clear from the beginning that stage 3 deliveries would happen after stage 2. I think most owners still expect the delivery order (within any given stage) to go by R1 delivery date.

It's painful to have such large deposits tied up for stage 2 but delivery priority will be part of the payoff. :thumbsup:

No doubt, it will take a lot of time and manpower to start processing all the stage 3 orders. I'm guessing that the metrics they would get from starting that process now is not worth the hassle.
 
Seems that there is truth to both sides of this argument about RED not having the parts to make the Epic X's and them wanting to make money off of the Epic M's off those willing to pay more for the cameras. But it seems that a lot of people are really angry with how RED is choosing to deal with people. I have heard a couple stories from people that make me really mad and I know they are true because I hear them first hand. I do believe that RED should do something to make this all right with all the Stage 2 people. Do I think they will do something like this...not really. But I guess its something we all signed on for. The door is always there for us to walk out I guess.
 
It would be great for you to elaborate on "people are really angry with how RED is choosing to deal with people " Andrew... what more could we do?

Give people a HUGE discount on Stage 2? wait.. we are already doing that.

Give people a better camera with more features than when they signed up for Stage 2? wait.. already doing that as well.

Offer to sell people that can't wait a hand made machined incredibly-expensive-to-make camera that costs us more and more money to make as the days go on and the parts get more expensive? wait.. we are doing that as well.

Do people realize how much money it costs us to keep the lights on and keep our employees and engineers fed while we sit here NOT selling EPIC-X's?

Sometimes I wonder why we bother...
 
Jarred Land said:
Sometimes I wonder why we bother...
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Because of the very nice footage that I'm looking at here, shot on Epic, a camera that is soon to be in the hands of many people worldwide, and if you can't make good images with this camera, I don't know what to say. It really is that good and well worth the efforts by everyone at RED, and well worth the wait of everyone on the list. I'm one of the people waiting. So, I do have a horse in the race. Trust me guys, by the time Epic-X is available, you're going to have an even better camera. They keep making it better.
 
...responding to such obvious flame-bait?

Me too. You guys are obviously working hard Jarred. I find it strange that you feel like you ALWAYS have to justify your position to customers.

Kegan
 
Jarred Land said:
It would be great for you to elaborate on "people are really angry with how RED is choosing to deal with people " Andrew... what more could we do?

Give people a HUGE discount on Stage 2? wait.. we are already doing that.

Give people a better camera with more features than when they signed up for Stage 2? wait.. already doing that as well.

Offer to sell people that can't wait a hand made machined incredibly expensive to make camera that costs us more and more money to make as the days go on and the parts get more expensive? wait.. we are doing that as well.

Do people realize how much money it costs us to keep the lights on and keep our employees and engineers fed while we sit here NOT selling EPIC-X's?

Sometimes I wonder why we bother...
Click to expand...

You bother because there are those of us out here who do appreciate RED and what it had done for us. I would have used my Epic-X today on the shoot if it were available. But I'm just waiting to buy it just as you are waiting to sell it. Hopefully it'll be soon!

edit: Figures Steve would beat me to it... ;-)
 
incredible.. i read a post and get depressed for a moment.. then i read 3 posts over 3 minutes by 3 friends.. and all is good in the world again. Thanks guys :)
 
The vast vast majority of us are incredibly grateful, patiently waiting, and knew EXACTLY what we were signing up for from the start and will back Red to the end.
 
One could speculate that without the lows, the highs would not feel quite as exhilarating.

Want to bounce out of the lows? Turn on a camera. Record some images.

It just keeps getting better.

That makes it real easy to answer "why bother?".
 
Jared............you are one of my Digital Cinema heroes. I try to read your posts everyday.

THANK YOU for all that you do.
 
I love shooting with my EPIC-M 928, it is worth far far more than the price tag on it. And knowing I have 3 x stage 2 coming in the near future makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Best 15k I spent last year. Only a fool would look a gift horse in the mouth.

You have always given us many options. With such a small deposit for stage 2 who wouldn't be content to wait for a better camera with more features. And the others? I think Jim said something about bad attitudes.
 
I am happy to wait for however long it takes for Epic-X to arrive. I support the Red team 100%, and appreciate all of your efforts.

-Dave Dessel
 
I am also waiting for a stage two and a stage three Epic. I want my Epics now, just like everyone else on the list. But really folks, the M program is the best thing that could have happened to all us now waiting. By offering the M's at a higher price, and pre-empting the stage two program, Red gets this camera into the hands of all those legendary artists we all admire. The Ridley Scotts and Peter Jacksons of movie lore can now cement the Epic as the top motion picture camera of our time, replacing film once and for all. This is going to have positive effect on us all. I'm happy to wait a few more months and reap all the benefits. Even though I have not purchased an M, I am still happy Red did it. I can't wait to get my stage II, but I know that when I do, I will be in a much better place because of the M program.
 
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