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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Stage 3 - I am worried

Erik Franzén said:
But... that's the point. You didn't have to take the deal -- you could've opted out and said: "Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait until stage 4 is shipping." and that would've been fine. No one is pointing a gun at your head either, forcing you to elect for stage 3. It just happens to be so that you did and that comes with the inevitable waiting time.

I don't really see the problem...
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I have several Epics and a few stage 3's coming and have no problem seeing Axel's point. Perhaps you are too young in this world (red) to understand fully the intricate nature of this situation. Please understand that i mean you no insult, but i do see you joined just after all these offers were being offered. Its becoming unnerving to read these opinions from people who either werent around in the days of "build 9"and therefore dont have it in them to understand that these offers also were givin to us for being the brave bunch to believe that Beta-testing in the field was somehow going to be worth staking our reputations over. arduous at times, as some of us know all too well. Now we all know things change, and have come to expect some changes, but the schedule of delivery is not inline with the gratitude we have come to know and expect from being the early RED family...

Erik i apologize if im wrong but ill leave you with this, your cavalier response doent serve this thread at all as your not even eligible for any of the early stages best i can tell...
 
I took stage two as I needed to be sure of getting Epics as soon as I could. I did not take up the M option as it was too expensive.

You make your choice, pay what you think is right for you and get in the appropriate line.

I feel that I was right to take up on Stage 2. If there was no delay at all I may have felt it best, in hindsight, to trade in. I am glad that I have a choice between all three.
MC
 
Peter Matthes said:
I guess it all depends on your definition of "bottom of the pile".

My concern, and many others in Stage 3 and 3.5, is how this will affect the future of upgrade order.
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Given RED's emphasis on this being a "gift to early believers" and their upping of production capabilities, I'd say it's fair to assume that following DRAGON, programs will be based on a first-come-first-served basis rather than on serial # or shipping date. Just my opinion of course, and RED might very well have something in store for early adopters (again), but I'd say it'd be unfair to assume so.

The only thing I can say is that I doubt that RED will allow stage 3 people to get "left behind" when DRAGON comes around the corner.
 
sergio arguello said:
I have several Epics and a few stage 3's coming and have no problem seeing Axel's point. Perhaps you are too young in this world (red) to understand fully the intricate nature of this situation. Please understand that i mean you no insult, but i do see you joined just after all these offers were being offered. Its becoming unnerving to read these opinions from people who either werent around in the days of "build 9"and therefore dont have it in them to understand that these offers also were givin to us for being the brave bunch to believe that Beta-testing in the field was somehow going to be worth staking our reputations over. arduous at times, as some of us know all too well. Now we all know things change, and have come to expect some changes, but the schedule of delivery is not inline with the gratitude we have come to know and expect from being the early RED family...

Erik i apologize if im wrong but ill leave you with this, your cavalier response doent serve this thread at all as your not even eligible for any of the early stages best i can tell...
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Thank you for the condescending tone and subtle hints of aggressiveness, but I don't need it. I'm a renter, not owner, and no I wasn't around in the early days -- does that discount my opinion in your eyes? That may be so, but I find it discourteous of you to not even acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of people here who have been following RED longer than their post count indicates...

Also, RED has already rewarded those who went with them in the early days with the stage program -- isn't that enough? What's next, an arm and a leg? What exactly are the expectations here -- for RED to halt their business until stage 3 is done? I want to know what "solutions" people have and not just the "problem".

No, I'm not in any of the stage programs so you don't have to give two bits about my opinion -- but I find the level of self-entitlement here nauseating at times...
 
I understand the frustration of Stage 3 and Stage 3.5 people waiting for the upgrade. Hopefully RED will elaborate on the upgrade process for Dragon. Hopefully it will be a first come first served process.
 
Paul Ellington said:
PS - just because I don't advertise what gear I have doesn't mean I don't own a Red.
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Let me rephrase it. If you're not stage 3 go jack another thread. Is that better?

This is extremely frustrating when Epic M's, Scarlets and stage 2 hitting the streets and stage 3 getting thrown in a group of new comers. I don't care if you purchase a stage 4, 5 whatever. But to change course like that overnight by telling us that stage 3 is going to take a long time is pretty dim. If you're not stage 3 then you don't know what it feels like not having the Epic in your hands at this moment.
 
sergio arguello said:
Erik i apologize if im wrong but ill leave you with this, your cavalier response doent serve this thread at all as your not even eligible for any of the early stages best i can tell...
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Sergio, you don't seem to understand what's going on in the world (RED). There are no Stage III or 4 shipping yet. RED is just taking orders for Stage 4. A Stage III Customer will always get priority over a Stage 4 Customer whenever there is a conflict. All this has been made pretty clear on this board, you just have to get up to speed, like some of the newer participants, do your homework.
 
Erik Franzén said:
Thank you for the condescending tone and subtle hints of aggressiveness, but I don't need it. I'm a renter, not owner, and no I wasn't around in the early days -- does that discount my opinion in your eyes? That may be so, but I find it discourteous of you to not even acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of people here who have been following RED longer than their post count indicates...

Also, RED has already rewarded those who went with them in the early days with the stage program -- isn't that enough? What's next, an arm and a leg? What exactly are the expectations here -- for RED to halt their business until stage 3 is done? I want to know what "solutions" people have and not just the "problem".

No, I'm not in any of the stage programs so you don't have to give two bits about my opinion -- but I find the level of self-entitlement here nauseating at times...
Click to expand...

My gratitude towards RED extends not only towards the gear they produce but also towards the education they provide through this forum and through their insider glimpses into how they run their business. And to the fact that they are always listening, and they are very good at responding and absorbing criticism without taking it personally - there is nothing self-entitled or nauseating about their customers speaking up.

And yes, there is a chasm and an apparent lack of understanding that exists between people with skin in the game and people with a post count. There's no one asking for preferential treatment here, so I don't know why you are attacking Sergio - there has been an unfolding of events with some historical roots, and if you didn't participate in that history, then you are probably speaking from a place where you lack facts or understanding....and then, quite wrongly, call it names like "nauseating" or "entitlement".

There is nothing wrong with stating the facts and asking RED to find a solution. It happens all the time. I trust RED - because I have seen it happen so often, that after a period of initial resistance to the fact that there is a problem, they come through with an excellent solution. The historical record corroborates it. Jim and Jarred are frequently willing to revise their own opinions on things they say on reduser, and they do this without a bunch of fanfare. A good customer said he didn't like something that he perceived as a problem. Jarred said he felt the problem was one of the customer's perception. Somewhere in between is a solution.

They will find a way - trust RED.
 
As a "last in line" for Stage III, but "ready to pull the trigger" immediately, I would hope that RED develop a system where-by those who are ready to act on Stage III immediately are not unnecessarily delayed by those "ahead" of us on Stage III but not willing to act immediately.
 
Ivan G said:
Let me rephrase it. If you're not stage 3 go jack another thread. Is that better?

This is extremely frustrating when Epic M's, Scarlets and stage 2 hitting the streets and stage 3 getting thrown in a group of new comers. I don't care if you purchase a stage 4, 5 whatever. But to change course like that overnight by telling us that stage 3 is going to take a long time is pretty dim. If you're not stage 3 then you don't know what it feels like not having the Epic in your hands at this moment.
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I shot plenty on the RedOne before ordering my Epic M, ordered a RedOne But ha to pay for school, they had my money a long time before I had to get a refund for it so I get it. I don't think the tone of your message is particularly helpful, I wait for stuff too, oh fuck well, shit takes time and that is part of the excitement.

I am sorry if my comments upset you, I just wish I were in your shoes that I had the option to be inline for stage 3 or 3.5, so it kills me to hear you all complain when it's such a generous gift Red is giving you.

That being said, you can still call me a jerk if you like, I at the end of the day just think you get more of life being a little more appreciative, particularly around XMAS, but do as you will and know this, I get it, I wish some stuff were quicker too, but you are missing one big point, so do Jim & Jarred.

- PE
 
insert first 10 second music piece from the good, the bad and the ugly movie.
pawa-wa-waaaa...

fucken drama.
 
As the originator of this thread may I humbly suggest to bring this to an end start the 'love and hugs' phase.
Voices and opinions have been expressed and heard.

We might not always agree with Red's way of doing things. But
they sure as hell listen to us and I greatly appreciate it.


MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY !!!
 
Jarred Land said:
No disrespect taken... I Understand your point of view. Ironically.. Your last point is my point.. If you guys are requesting that we stop all camera shipments while we go through the process of waiting for cameras to come in, get checked out, upgraded as needed etc... then you are not allowing us to stay afloat.

Stage 4 guys are not delaying you from getting your stage 3 or 3.5 cameras... when your camera is finished the process.. it gets priority above all else on whatever is on the shelf. I don't think some of you guys really understand what your bitching about....
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I think the key questions that have not been asked as far as I can tell are, how many Red Ones does Red intend to process per day? And when does Red intend to start processing them? It takes dedicated technicians to do that job and on every camera they process Red takes a 17,500.- or so hit. It's understandable in this economy that Red has to move out as many cameras as possible to make up for their generosity. On the other hand it would make a lot of us stage 3 and 3.5 people feel better if we knew what the plan was. In the past 'coming soon' has meant anywhere from tomorrow to years. So when Red says 'it's going to take a long time' it sounds frightening'. Either way, if we had a little bit more info we would be more at ease and could all plan ahead accordingly, that's all.
Happy holidays to everyone here on the forum and at Red. Take some time off and relax, 2012 is going to be awesome.
 
George Butterfield said:
Sergio, you don't seem to understand what's going on in the world (RED). There are no Stage III or 4 shipping yet. RED is just taking orders for Stage 4. A Stage III Customer will always get priority over a Stage 4 Customer whenever there is a conflict. All this has been made pretty clear on this board, you just have to get up to speed, like some of the newer participants, do your homework.
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Careful where you throw stones mate...that quote was due to Erik's response to Axel in the very start of the thread so if you dont read up you wouldnt understand...So youll need to get to class before even thinking about homework

homework by definition is the understanding that stage epic was before a scarlet of any nature, but that was a while ago and as stated we understand things change...
 
Jarred Land said:
No disrespect taken... I Understand your point of view. Ironically.. Your last point is my point.. If you guys are requesting that we stop all camera shipments while we go through the process of waiting for cameras to come in, get checked out, upgraded as needed etc... then you are not allowing us to stay afloat.

Stage 4 guys are not delaying you from getting your stage 3 or 3.5 cameras... when your camera is finished the process.. it gets priority above all else on whatever is on the shelf. I don't think some of you guys really understand what your bitching about....
Click to expand...

Jarred, speaking only for myself personally, thank you for re-specifying this point. This does answer my question and addresses my concern. I shall now move to the other side of the room.

-B
 
As a Stage 3'er I can personally say that I wouldn't care how many people from stage 4 get their camera ahead of me if I knew I would still get my camera in a reasonable amount of time, for example, by the end of February would be awesome.

In other words, I think the real problem is the slow delivery rate rather than stage 4 jumping the line. If 2,000 cameras were shipping per month, none of this would matter - at least not for the majority of us.

One last point, in my case, I chose stage 3 over stage 2 based on the statement by Jim that Epic would not be a slow rollout a la R1, however it has turned out to be very similar. I personally don't need both a R1 and an Epic, and since it sounded like the delivery of all stages would hapen much faster I opted for stage 3 instead of 2 as it seemed the simplest/easiest/best for me. If I could have known that the difference in stages would be possibly 6 months or more I probably would have changed my mind. It would have been worth my while to go for stage 2, pay more upfront, and then sell the R1 after I received the epic.

I'm not complaining at all, I'm still very happy to get to be part of stage 3, but hindsight is 20/20 and I am feeling a little bit like I bet on the production lines being faster and I bet wrong unfortunately. Hopefully in 2012 they'll be faster! :smile5:
 
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