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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Stage 3 - I am worried

I'm looking to get into the RED arena, but I read these threads and the way RED reps, mods speak to the end users.... Well I think better words could be used. I'm loving what the chef is cooking, but I will never follow any group blindly. People want the gear now! This is not a bad problem to have.... The cocky, high school thing doesn't look good on grown men.

Looking forward to going RED
 
Peter Matthes said:
Regardless of if it is based on serial number or delivery date, late Stage 3 owners and Stage 3.5 owners (Red customers for years) will now have cameras that must wait for Dragon upgrades while new customers are way ahead in those upgrade lines.
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The Dragon upgrade will be based upon whoever pays/orders it first will get it first. It will not be based on serial numbers. It does not make good business sense to prolong this serial number/delivery date thing any longer. RED must start to use more competitive practices. After Stage 3.5 all previous "promises" will have been fulfilled. And you don't need Dragon anyway, by the time you need Dragon, Son of Dragon will be out.
 
Jarred Land said:
Who would of thought there would be so much drama over this. Remember guys.. the stages are all Optional. We intended these to be a gift.. no matter how much you try and tie that to business planning or compare it to anything else.. it is genuinely intended to be a gift from us to all our great customers. Stage 3 guys were the last group I thought would complain about anything. guess I was wrong.
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With all due respect ... keep in mind.

- They don't call it the film business because it sounds nice.
- The vast majority of Red owners are working professionals.
- Every business stays afloat, only as long as its customers allow it to.


George Butterfield said:
The Dragon upgrade will be based upon whoever pays/orders it first will get it first. It will not be based on serial numbers.
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I'm sorry, George, but until that's officially announced, it's simply your guess.
 
axel ebermann said:
Jarred just commented on the stage 3 process and simultaneously taking orders for stage 4:

"we need to be able to take new camera orders during that long stage 3/3.5 process... because it is going to take along time"


Wow. I admit that really takes the wind out of my sails.


The "Beta Tattoo Program" apparently already churned out over a thousand Epic M's. Then stage 2 was processed as announced. Now apparently the Scarlet - formerly
known as the Epic-S - is shipping in numbers.


I slowly but surely can't help the feeling that by the time I will finally get my Epic-X all of my clients will have moved on.


Stage 3 sounded like a great deal. It was one of my major motivations for taking all of my savings and buying a Red One back then. But if a modern camera has a lifespan
of three to four years and I am locked into a schedule where I am getting it years after everybody else it becomes really disheartening.
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As a few have already said, stage 3 was always the best deal for those willing to wait.

Red makes amazing cameras, but their track record on delivery dates and back-order are, well... very Californian to say the least ;)

(Sorry Red :)

I wouldn't complain too much as you are getting an Epic X for the price of a Canon 1DX! Or bloody close to it anyway!

The world changes, and Red gave a timeline for our benefit (and often admitted being subject to change). We bought the ticket we take the ride. And I doubt epic will be outdated in 4 years. The girl with the dragon tattoo was just shot on the Red One MX (and a little epic). Fincher's words? He preferred the look of the Red One MX :)

Ironic, huh...
 
Jarred Land said:
Who would of thought there would be so much drama over this. Remember guys.. the stages are all Optional. We intended these to be a gift.. no matter how much you try and tie that to business planning or compare it to anything else.. it is genuinely intended to be a gift from us to all our great customers. Stage 3 guys were the last group I thought would complain about anything. guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...

Stage 3 is the x-mas gift...

It is so much funnier to give gifts when people smile...
 
Everyone needs to calm down a bit and relax about the situation. I for one have decided that the best approach is to try and just enjoy my Red One next year for a bit longer.
 
Peter Matthes said:
With all due respect ... keep in mind.

- They don't call it the film business because it sounds nice.
- The vast majority of Red owners are working professionals.
- Every business stays afloat, only as long as its customers allow it to.

I'm sorry, George, but until that's officially announced, it's simply your guess.
Click to expand...

No disrespect taken... I Understand your point of view. Ironically.. Your last point is my point.. If you guys are requesting that we stop all camera shipments while we go through the process of waiting for cameras to come in, get checked out, upgraded as needed etc... then you are not allowing us to stay afloat.

Stage 4 guys are not delaying you from getting your stage 3 or 3.5 cameras... when your camera is finished the process.. it gets priority above all else on whatever is on the shelf. I don't think some of you guys really understand what your bitching about....
 
Thank you Jarred. I think the 250+ of us Stage 3s just wanted to know that we will get the priority over the 4s once our Ones have passed muster. Thanks again for clearing that part up.

Oh and by the way, we all can't wait for it to start, but thats nothing new here. Have a great holiday.
Mike
 
Ivan G said:
People that are commenting on behalf of Red and don't even own one shouldn't be commenting.
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There are people who don't own a RED but have been following the board and industry for years, a lot of these people are very knowledgeable. Their comments and opinions are very informative. Censorship is generally not conducive to freedom.
 
Jarred Land said:
No disrespect taken... I Understand your point of view. Ironically.. Your last point is my point.. If you guys are requesting that we stop all camera shipments while we go through the process of waiting for cameras to come in, get checked out, upgraded as needed etc... then you are not allowing us to stay afloat.

Stage 4 guys are not delaying you from getting your stage 3 or 3.5 cameras... when your camera is finished the process.. it gets priority above all else on whatever is on the shelf. I don't think some of you guys really understand what your bitching about....
Click to expand...

I 'm not sure you completely understand what we are "bitching" about, because you have not addressed it.

It's not about when we get our Epic-X. It's everything that follows. Our concern is how this system will affect the order of future upgrades.

If you can explain to us how this system will not push us further and further down the seemingly endless line for upgrades (like Dragon), then we will certainly be complaining about nothing.

Thanks so much for taking Holiday time to talk about this, Jarred.
 
Peter Matthes said:
I 'm not sure you completely understand what we are "bitching" about, because you have not addressed it.

It's not about when we get our Epic-X. It's everything that follows. Our concern is how this system will affect the order of future upgrades.

If you can explain to us how this system will not push us further and further down the seemingly endless line for upgrades (like Dragon), then we will certainly be complaining about nothing.

Thanks so much for taking Holiday time to talk about this, Jarred.
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I'm sorry, but the opening plead of this thread begs to differ -- it specifically talks about how "late" stage 3 is running and the fear of ending up at the bottom of the pile... which is what Jarred addressed accordingly.
 
Are people upset because the market would be over saturated or because dragon maybe closer for some than others making it hard to get ROI?
 
Erik Franzén said:
I'm sorry, but the opening plead of this thread begs to differ -- it specifically talks about how "late" stage 3 is running and the fear of ending up at the bottom of the pile... which is what Jarred addressed accordingly.
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I guess it all depends on your definition of "bottom of the pile".

My concern, and many others in Stage 3 and 3.5, is how this will affect the future of upgrade order.
 
I'm glad to see RED making some money. If you think you have a sizeable investment to protect, take one second to get out of your head and consider the size of the dice they have rolled. It is probably a huge relief to the entire team, to see the pay-off at last. The pride is evident in the kick-ass production line pictures they've been posting. It costs money to open those lines. It is important to recall that RED began as a labor of love - and that remains a key ingredient in their zeitgeist. It is important to remember those roots.

That said, I can certainly understand the Stage 3 frustration, getting line-crashed by the EPIC-M line, the SCARLET line, and the Stage 4 line, especially for those who made an early investment in RED, before it became clear that they would rock the world - this is only blatantly obvious in hindsight...well, nuff said. Waiting and watching others making hay on their cameras while you wait is painful. Of course it is.

As an original reservation holder who has certainly put in my time waiting, hopefully productively, by using that opportunity to learn at the feet of some of redusers' masters - I find it especially painful to listen to new users with no sense of history complaining about wait times for cameras that they put down money on, one month ago. Of course, when I vented that frustration, Gavin took the opportunity to call me a hypocrite, so there's really no point to venting. It passes the time but isn't constructive.

I very much look forward to the days when RED gets out of back-order. And the confusion and curveballs and revision of Stages become another footnote in the RED history book. It is wonderful to be on the receiving end of such a gift, but I never thought of it as a gift, as much as a new way and better way of doing business, one of the ways in which RED was trying to distinguish itself from the field, by undermining trickleware.

The idea of investing in a new paradigm for doing business instills trust. The gift model - not so much, as it has the veiled threat of being retracted, not given, subject to endless revision by the giver.

But then, I've probably said too much again, as usual...probably a good time to shut up, chain myself to the editing suite, and revel in the marvel that is R3D and Graeme's bountiful color science. I am still blown away by the RED ONE images we shot in June, oh the detail, the texture...while you wait, go make something pretty with your RED ONE. Nothing will cheer you up faster....
 
I understand the logic here, but it would be nice if RED said sorry guys, we wanted to ship stages sequentially, but we didn't expect how much work it would be to review RED One cameras in trade-in program.
 
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