Epic S, Epic M, Epic X, Epic Lite, Scarlet 2/3" - S35 - FF35

[Seung Han]

Can somebody explain the differences between these epic and scarlet models and list them in order of what they have to offer, from best to well...still great.

 

[Greg Starr]

Can somebody explain the differences between these epic and scarlet models and list them in order of what they have to offer, from best to well...still great.

In my understanding, the Epic Lite (formery the Scarley S35) is now the Epic S. The Epic M will be the Monstro sensor, whereas the S is not. The Epic X is modification of the Red One, not just a brain like the other new cameras. The FF35 Epic, which was to be a Full-Frame 35mm sensor, seems to have disappeared (unless it is the Epic M. I'm not sure). The remaining Scarlet models are 2/3" sensors which is smaller than the super 35mm sensors found in the Epic line and Red One, and accordingly has a lower resolution of around 3K, which is still greater than 1.9K which is full HD 1080p. The Scarlets are smaller and have fewer features than the Epics including lower bit rates. The higher the model Epic, the higher the bit rate, so the Epic S will have the lowest among them, but should still best the Scarlets.

 

[Mark Pugh]

Epic-M is not Monstro.
M stands for machined (the casing). Same in all other respects to Epic X, AFAIK.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

EPIC Line = S35 Mysterium X Chip Program
EPIC M = EPIC - X but made by hand with MACHINED metal parts not cast metal (extremely limited production 1-50 estimated)
EPIC-X = Production model made from cast aluminum
EPIC -S = (replaced Scarlet S35) Now an Entry Level 5K Epic S. Same 5K resolution as X and M. just LESS framerate options, a few LESS features, Still PRO, just more affordable for indies. around $12K plus accessories.

Scarlet = 2/3" Chip Program (Arri Alexa & Sony F23 Killers for ENG and SPORTS and indies)
Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable Model (C-mount for mini primes)
Great for 3D Sports, News, ENG, documentaries, and indie features.

Scarlet 2/3" FIXED = (all prosumer cameras killer)
Affordable (est. around $6K) entry level product but still pro. Excellent crash cam 3D cam.
State of the Art break through features -including HDRx™™™™
Great for all of the above and especially indies

 

[D Fuller]

This is not correct!

This is not correct!

In my understanding, the Epic Lite (formery the Scarley S35) is now the Epic S. The Epic M will be the Monstro sensor, whereas the S is not. The Epic X is modification of the Red One, not just a brain like the other new cameras. The FF35 Epic, which was to be a Full-Frame 35mm sensor, seems to have disappeared (unless it is the Epic M. I'm not sure). The remaining Scarlet models are 2/3" sensors which is smaller than the super 35mm sensors found in the Epic line and Red One, and accordingly has a lower resolution of around 3K, which is still greater than 1.9K which is full HD 1080p. The Scarlets are smaller and have fewer features than the Epics including lower bit rates. The higher the model Epic, the higher the bit rate, so the Epic S will have the lowest among them, but should still best the Scarlets.

Sorry, but almost everything in the quote above is wrong.

All Epics are S-35 MX sensors with identical, 5K resolution.
All Scarlets are 2/3" sensors with identical, 3K resolution.

Epic-M is in production now. It is a machined, entirely hand-built S-35 MX sensor Epic.
Epic-X is going to be in production shortly (before NAB we're told). It will be a cast-body camera made in a US assembly plant. It's an S-35, MX-sensor camera with specs that will be identical to the Epic-M.
Epic-S will be an S-35 MX-sensor camera that will have lower framerates and lower data rates than the Epic-X and the Epic-M, but identical resolution. It replaced the Scarlet S-35 in Red's line.

There is a fixed-lens version of the Scarlet, and an interchangeable-lens version. Both are 2/3" MX sensors.

Cameras with Monstro sensors are not going to be available for quite some time. (Safe to say more than a year. Beyond that, no one knows.) The so-called FF-35 (or Vistavision, in motion picture terms) cameras were always part of the Monstro program. As far as we know, they still are.

 

[Ed David]

Wow that's a confusing naming system. Maybe they should have code words for each model of the camera. I got an EPIC-S I want to bring to a shoot I will tell the producer and he will think I have an EPIC-X.

 

[Greg Starr]

Sorry, but almost everything in the quote above is wrong.

All Epics are S-35 MX sensors with identical, 5K resolution.
All Scarlets are 2/3" sensors with identical, 3K resolution.

Epic-M is in production now. It is a machined, entirely hand-built S-35 MX sensor Epic.
Epic-X is going to be in production shortly (before NAB we're told). It will be a cast-body camera made in a US assembly plant. It's an S-35, MX-sensor camera with specs that will be identical to the Epic-M.
Epic-S will be an S-35 MX-sensor camera that will have lower framerates and lower data rates than the Epic-X and the Epic-M, but identical resolution. It replaced the Scarlet S-35 in Red's line.

There is a fixed-lens version of the Scarlet, and an interchangeable-lens version. Both are 2/3" MX sensors.

Cameras with Monstro sensors are not going to be available for quite some time. (Safe to say more than a year. Beyond that, no one knows.) The so-called FF-35 (or Vistavision, in motion picture terms) cameras were always part of the Monstro program. As far as we know, they still are.

You didn't really dispute anything I said, except that I misunderstood the Epic M, which was already established by whoever commented after me, before you. You just rambled about release dates and clarified model differentations slightly. I said nothing about release dates and I'm pretty sure I established that the announced epics are all S35.

Does it really seem necessary to have different model names to designate between the hand built M and X if the M is just essentially a pre-release Epic "gift for Red One owners"? Why not just make them "Limited Edition X?" The model name and range is changing an awful lot and quite frequently.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

You didn't really dispute anything I said. You just rambled about release dates and clarified model differentations slightly. I said nothing about release dates and I'm pretty sure I established that the announced epics are all S35.

Except that you stated the Epic-M was a Monstro sensor which, quite simply, is not correct. Epic-M is, as has been noted, the limited production machined version of the Epic-X. That's one very important correction.

:smile:

EDIT: Looks like you acknowledged your mistake on the M. As for why they are named the way they are... only RED gets to make that call!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Wow that's a confusing naming system. Maybe they should have code words for each model of the camera. I got an EPIC-S I want to bring to a shoot I will tell the producer and he will think I have an EPIC-X.

Again.. this is a "Real Names" Forum, and you should have registered with yours, and or have it properly formatted as requested by Forum rules.
you should provide to make a request to have it changed before you get Banned

You can request your name change here: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32432


OIt is only a bit confusing to the fact that RED has changed names few times, other then that pretty simple really.

The Versions of the EPIC camera, the X

The fact that there is an M it is only because it is an X made by Hand with different
materials and in a super limited edition.

Then The S, the FF, the 645 and 617.

As far as Scarlett cameras goes, even simpler now Scarlett is a 2/3 sensor,
either Fixed Zoom or Interchangeable lenses mount.

 

[D Fuller]

You didn't really dispute anything I said, except that I misunderstood the Epic M, which was already established by whoever commented after me, before you. You just rambled about release dates and clarified model differentations slightly. I said nothing about release dates and I'm pretty sure I established that the announced epics are all S35.

Does it really seem necessary to have different model names to designate between the hand built M and X if the M is just essentially a pre-release Epic "gift for Red One owners"? Why not just make them "Limited Edition X?" The model name and range is changing an awful lot and quite frequently.

:attention9ha:

Epic-M is not Monstro, but a machined version of Epic-X.
Epic-X is not a "modification of the Red One" it is a " brain like the other new cameras". In fact, it's the heart of the new camera program.
The FF35 camera has not disappeared. It has never appeared at all, but it is and has always been part of the Monstro program, which will appear at some future date. (God and Jim willing.)
It is not true that "the higher the Epic model the higher the bitrate". What is true is that the Epic M and X have identical specs and the Epic-S has both lower bitrates and lower framerates.
Other than that, I didn't dispute anything. ;-}

I spoke so strongly because there is a LOT of misinformation about all of Red's programs, and it just confuses people. I hoped that by speaking strongly I could help prevent more confusion. And yes, in the time it took me to write the post, Mark and Tim had clarified the same things I did. I'm not the world's fastest typist, and they hadn't posted when I started writing.

As to whether it's necessary to have different model names, etc. They are what they are. A discussion of names took place back in December. Jim made a decision. I've told you what the names are and what they mean. Time to move on.

 

[Elsie N]

The Epic X is modification of the Red One, not just a brain like the other new cameras.

You also said the above, which is also incorrect. Epic is an entirely new camera with different exterior and interior (except for the Mysterium-X sensor version of the R-1, which they share.)

 

[Joe Kleber]

Wow that's a confusing naming system. Maybe they should have code words for each model of the camera. I got an EPIC-S I want to bring to a shoot I will tell the producer and he will think I have an EPIC-X.

To me it's actually less confusing now that the the EPIC-S is what it is....

The way things are now:

All current SCARLET models = 3K (NEW 2/3" sized sensor)

All current EPIC models = 5K (The same S35 sized MX sensor that's in the R1)


MONSTRO is in the future:

Future EPIC models* (EPIC-FF35, EPIC-645, EPIC-617) = 6K, 9K, 28K respectively

* all using various sizes of the future MONSTRO sensor which is currently in development.


The EPIC-S is the only model that is limited in its feature set and I have no doubt that owners will make this clear to the producers when the time comes.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

The Versions of the EPIC camera, the X

The fact that there is an M it is only because it is an X made by Hand with different
materials and in a super limited edition.

Then The S, the FF, the 645 and 617.

As far as Scarlett cameras goes, even simpler now Scarlett is a 2/3 sensor,
either Fixed Zoom or Interchangeable lenses mount.

Is that official? The FAQ still lists the FF35 model as being a Scarlet, not an EPIC. Perhaps they're planning to do both, EPIC = higher end, Scarlet = lower end, for all sensor sizes?

Or more likely, given the 2/3 vs. S35 logic, and EPIC-M vs. EPIC-S, the FF35 will have a totally different name altogether, with -M and -S versions...

(Oh and I'd normally have a gripe about a company that SHOUTed their model names by insisting on using all CAPS for them - but I'll make an exception for RED since they have one hell of a lot to SHOUT about! :laugh: )

Mike

 

[Ketch Rossi]

He he, first of all nothing its official with RED till its delivered, and even then they have tendency to re-write what
was previously official, look with Red ONe was officially 4k then become 4.5k now its MX

But no, its not official, its just the way I see it, since they tucked the Scarlett off the S35 and made it an Epic-S,
I imagine that makes only sense to do the same with the FF model that was intended for Scarlett.

But only RED knows what they will really do, NAB would be sure a defining moment to get some serious
updates on various program, if we don't read on Recon first

 

[Justin Simpson]

EPIC Line = S35 Mysterium X Chip Program

Scarlet = 2/3" Chip Program (Arri Alexa & Sony F23 Killers for ENG and SPORTS and indies)

That's a pretty bold statement.

 

[Michael Olsen]

That's a pretty bold statement.

Well, right now, that's what it looks like.

There are no Scarlet camera's announced that aren't 2/3".

Epic-X/M and Epic-S are both S35.

And I was under the impression that the FF35, 645, and 617 would carry the MONSTRO monicker, rather than Epic. Perhaps not - Epic isn't called Mysterium-X, after all.

 

[Perry Wilson]

Well, right now, that's what it looks like.

There are no Scarlet camera's announced that aren't 2/3".

Epic-X/M and Epic-S are both S35.

And I was under the impression that the FF35, 645, and 617 would carry the MONSTRO monicker, rather than Epic. Perhaps not - Epic isn't called Mysterium-X, after all.

Actually if you look at this http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40067&page=5 posted by Jim then you will see in the specs the EPIC says right on it Mysterium-X

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Scarlet = 2/3" Chip Program (Arri Alexa & Sony F23 Killers for ENG and SPORTS and indies)[/COLOR]
Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable Model (C-mount for mini primes)
Great for 3D Sports, News, ENG, documentaries, and indie features.

Mini-primes are not C-mount - they are a RED specific mini-PL mount. I'm not sure if RED are even making an official C mount for the system - but I'm sure that if they don't, a third party would be able to do it fairly easily.

That's a pretty bold statement.

How? Resolution, size and price wise, Scarlet kills the Alexa. Scarlet even has HDR-X (iirc) so it probably will also beat it on dynamic range by some margin...

 

[Justin Simpson]

I suppose we'll see. This isn't really the forum for these kind of discussions.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I suppose we'll see. This isn't really the forum for these kind of discussions.

Really? This isnt the forum to discuss that many of us believe Scarlet will outperform Alexa and F23 - both in features cost and final image and do waht DLSR did to prosumer camera sales?

yeah I guess you're right, Scarletuser is more appropriate. :wink5: