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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic S, Epic M, Epic X, Epic Lite, Scarlet 2/3" - S35 - FF35

Justin Simpson said:
I suppose we'll see. This isn't really the forum for these kind of discussions.
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Why do you say that? I was confused about what Red is offering and decided to post my question in the general DSMC section. I think it is appropriate no? since it covers Epic and Scarlet.

I didn't realize other people were confused or misinformed as well. I actually shot my first feature on a Red and starting preproduction on my next feature, so I don't have time to trawl through these boards for information.

I remember it was time consuming and confusing two years ago, and it looks like it is the same if not moreso! ha ha

We are aiming for shoot to start in October and November, with a lot of CG, so I want to get my head on right in what will be available for acquisition from Red.

I'm in Korea, so information here gets even more convoluted.

Things were getting clearer from the responses, but I feel like they've gotten a little confusing again.

So can somebody list the cameras in order of value from Epic to Red to Scarlet. Just to get it straight in my head when dealing with the Production Company and Rental places on their tentative schedules in Seoul. Thanks!
 
Perry Wilson said:
Actually if you look at this http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40067&page=5 posted by Jim then you will see in the specs the EPIC says right on it Mysterium-X
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Oh, I know it uses the Mysterium-X sensor, and I know it's called Mysterium-X.

What I'm saying is that the sensor name does not designate the name of the camera line - Epic is Mysterium-X, as is Scarlet. The FF35 etc. cameras may very well be called Epic, Monstro, or something we haven't even heard yet.

Sorry to be confusing.
 
Seung Han said:
So can somebody list the cameras in order of value from Epic to Red to Scarlet. Just to get it straight in my head when dealing with the Production Company and Rental places on their tentative schedules in Seoul. Thanks!
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This should be right. Prices are "brain/body only".

Epic-X: $28,000.00
RED ONE M-X: $25,000.00
Epic-S: ~$12,000.00
Scarlet 8x Fixed: ~$6000
Scarlet Interchangeable: ~$4000

I use the ~ because pricing for Epic-S hasn't been explicitly announced, but is supposed to be around $12,000.

I use the ~ also because since the addition of HDRx some time has passed and there haven't been any firm updates to the cost of these brains. I'm guessing those figures are within $500 to $1000, but should give you a good general idea.
 
EPIC M - Machined versions, short run for certain set number of individuals
EPIC X - RED One customers, special addition (well at least last time I heard) not machined but special metal
EPIC X (suppose to be a number instead of the X but can't remember the number) - will be for all new customers and will be at the 28K price as noted above. Same features as the X just not same cast
EPIC S - Previous Scarlet model, less frame rates etc.


Mys - X is what is used in the RED One and what is in the EPIC X and EPIC M, the difference is the internals hence the ability for 5K and high frame rates etc. on the EPIC but not on the RED One.
 
Wow.

I think Red may have to consider a better naming system, pretty soon, and do it right.
For my money, Scarlet 2/3, Epic FF35 and Epic 645 ( and Epic 617, I suppose) are the only names that have a discernable, sensible meaning. All the other models, unless your in regular contact with the cameras, or this forum, are arbitrary - kind of meaningless ... Almost interchangeable. ( couldn't Epic M mean medium format, for instance?)

These names as they are will need constant explanation to producers. I'd bet on it.
 
Well M and X are only for current owners so it really isn't a massive issue since M is machined and X is those that have got the special edition cameras,

More so I think they'll probably be saying the true numbers to a producer but I'm not sure if X got extra frame rates or not to define it from the other cameras other then the body work,

The names are all figures though, its only the two editions that got the letters

EDIT:

Ok and then there is S, so maybe a minor issue but I guess that aint so bad since it is middle ground between EPIC and Scarlet isn't it?

S is like the semi EPIC mixed with semi Scarlet since it just falls into the EPIC section

So that could be counted as "EPIC Starter"
 
As I understand it all of the 2nd generation cameras are Mysterium-X technology. S35 and 2/3".

The volume production cast body models for general market have been reduced to four:

Epic-X: The high performance S35 version $28k body
Epic-S: Entry level S35 model,formerly Scarlet S35. Moved to the Epic platform to accommodate the HDRx upgrade and possibly get it to production sooner. $12k? body.

Scarlet fixed: 2/3" 8x fixed lens version: Estimated $6K +/- price for basic shoot out of the box kit including some combination of control/ battery/display according to Ted.
Scarlet Cinema: 2/3" interchangeable model $4k +/- body only.
 
Is the naming system really that complicated or am I missing something: Epic = 5K and Scarlett = 3K, am I right? Really not that confusing between an M, X, or S. While some producers might trip up on the differences, they should be relying on the input of their d.p.'s anyway.

All I can think of is the number addiction that other manufacturers utilize in their naming schemes - it can positively make this small-braineded poster's eyes glaze over when they say, "Wow, have you seen the new 20071 VDH 22 made by so-and-so?"
 
The Epic M shouldn't even be listed. 99.999 percent of us will never own one so it is a non-issue.
 
eddavid said:
Wow that's a confusing naming system. Maybe they should have code words for each model of the camera. I got an EPIC-S I want to bring to a shoot I will tell the producer and he will think I have an EPIC-X.
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I fear there will be lots of unnecessary conversations/emails following a phone request over a bad phone line where someone asks for an "Epic-X" and "Epic-S" is heard (or vice-versa)!

A: "So I'd like to hire an S35 Epic-X for the weekend"
B: "OK, sorry was that an Epic-X or an Epic-S?"

A: "Sorry what?"
B: "Epic-X as in Epic-Xray, or Epic-S as in Epic-Sierra?"

A: "Epic-Xray and Sierra? Are they new models?"
B: "No sir, I was just trying to clarify whether you meant the X or the S model - with the phonetic alphabet."

A: "OK. The Xray one..."

even before getting to the rest of the hire conversation! :blink:
 
ericyoung said:
I fear there will be lots of unnecessary conversations/emails following a phone request over a bad phone line where someone asks for an "Epic-X" and "Epic-S" is heard (or vice-versa)!

A: "So I'd like to hire an S35 Epic-X for the weekend"
B: "OK, sorry was that an Epic-X or an Epic-S?"

A: "Sorry what?"
B: "Epic-X as in Epic-Xray, or Epic-S as in Epic-Sierra?"

A: "Epic-Xray and Sierra? Are they new models?"
B: "No sir, I was just trying to clarify whether you meant the X or the S model - with the phonetic alphabet."

A: "OK. The Xray one..."

even before getting to the rest of the hire conversation! :blink:
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I don't think things are as foxtrot, uniform, charlie, kilo, echo, delta (hyphen) uniform, papa as this suggests. Text or email to confirm.
 
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Elsie N said:
The Epic M shouldn't even be listed. 99.999 percent of us will never own one so it is a non-issue.
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Right. ...and neither should EPIC-X. The -X just means it's a special edition for someone who's eligible for one of the trade-in options.

Curran Giddens said:
While you can also get lower Redcode compression with HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ at the same time on the Epic-X, I am mostly just going to refer to it as the "one that does slo-mo."
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Right.



As far as EPICs go, just think Two models:. That's all.



EPIC = 5K model with all features

or

EPIC-S = 5K model with limited features

ericyoung said:
I fear there will be lots of unnecessary conversations/emails following a phone request over a bad phone line where someone asks for an "Epic-X" and "Epic-S" is heard (or vice-versa)!

A: "So I'd like to hire an S35 Epic-X for the weekend"
B: "OK, sorry was that an Epic-X or an Epic-S?"

A: "Sorry what?"
B: "Epic-X as in Epic-Xray, or Epic-S as in Epic-Sierra?"

A: "Epic-Xray and Sierra? Are they new models?"
B: "No sir, I was just trying to clarify whether you meant the X or the S model - with the phonetic alphabet."

A: "OK. The Xray one..."

even before getting to the rest of the hire conversation! :blink:
Click to expand...


The conversation should go like this....

A. I'd like to rent an EPIC
B. Great! How many days do you need it?

A. Wait, do you carry the other EPIC models?
B. There's only one other EPIC model. ...the EPIC-S

A. What's the difference between the two?
B. Well the EPIC-S has a limited feature set. For example: it can't overcrank as fast as the regular EPIC, etc, etc, etc,

A. Oh OK. That won't work for me. We need the full featured one.
B. OK

Done!
 
So nobody knows the specific differences between these six models as well as how the original Red pictures fits in this? I know Red is being rented out in Seoul with the MX sensor but will this Red have more features than the Epic without 'all the features'?

One has all the features and the other doesn't...?...

What's strange is I feel like an instigator now for asking such a simple question. But I come to this site and always leave with the feeling that I'm missing or confusing something. Of course, it's best to clear up the pieces in the bigger picture.

Maybe there is a site, link, or a thread that explains the models.

Also, thanks to everybody for explaining the general differences between the epic models.
 
Seung Han said:
So nobody knows the specific differences between these six models as well as how the original Red pictures fits in this? I know Red is being rented out in Seoul with the MX sensor but will this Red have more features than the Epic without 'all the features'?

One has all the features and the other doesn't...?...

What's strange is I feel like an instigator now for asking such a simple question. But I come to this site and always leave with the feeling that I'm missing or confusing something. Of course, it's best to clear up the pieces in the bigger picture.

Maybe there is a site, link, or a thread that explains the models.

Also, thanks to everybody for explaining the general differences between the epic models.
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Hi Seung Han

Don't feel like an instigator. Your question is a good one.

There are many threads that discuss the cameras.

To learn about SCARLETS click here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38274

To learn about EPICs click here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37011

There is no one place where it's all sorted out.

Part of the problem is that we don't have an official list of the features that will be available on the new cams.
We only have a general idea. It's hard to give all the "specific differences" because some things could still change before the cameras start shipping.

1st off I'm not sure where you're getting six models from. There will only be 5 total...


EDIT: Michael Olsen's list:
3K SCARLET Interchangeable: ~$4000
3K SCARLET 8x Fixed lens: ~$6000

4.5K RED ONE MX: $25,000.00

5K EPIC-S: ~$12,000.00
5K EPIC: ~$28,000.00


I can see how it confuses people when they see this list. Why does the R1 cost so much more than the EPIC-S?

There are many reasons for this. For example: The $12,000 figure is for the brain only. If you add the module that you need to give you the additional outputs that are already included on the RED ONE, than now you will spend more money. If you add a REDMOTE to control the EPIC-S, than now you will spend more money.

Seung Han, you really should wait for an official list of features from RED and then decide for yourself.



Remember that many things may change before these new cameras start to ship. ...including prices.

When the time comes, RED will give the official "specific details"
 
Joe Kleber said:
Hi Seung Han

Don't feel like an instigator. Your question is a good one.

There are many threads that discuss the cameras.

To learn about SCARLETS click here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38274

To learn about EPICs click here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37011

There is no one place where it's all sorted out.

Part of the problem is that we don't have an official list of the features that will be available on the new cams.
We only have a general idea. It's hard to give all the "specific differences" because some things could still change before the cameras start shipping.

1st off I'm not sure where you're getting six models from. There will only be 5 total...

3K SCARLET Interchangeable: ~$4000
3K SCARLET 8x Fixed lens: ~$6000

4.5K RED ONE MX: $25,000.00

5K EPIC-S: ~$12,000.00
5K EPIC: ~$28,000.00

I can see how it confuses people when they see this list. Why does the R1 cost so much more than the EPIC-S?

There are many reasons for this. For example: The $12,000 figure is for the brain only. If you add the module that you need to give you the additional outputs that are already included on the RED ONE, than now you will spend more money. If you add a REDMOTE to control the EPIC-S, than now you will spend more money.

Seung Han, you really should wait for an official list of features from RED and then decide for yourself.



Remember that many things may change before these new cameras start to ship. ...including prices.

When the time comes, RED will give the official "specific details"
Click to expand...


Thanks Joe for taking the time to answer clearly, much appreciated.
 
I agree that they should condense the list of cameras. Also you never know, maybe the big secret being released at NAB 2011 is that there is still a scarlet ff35 or even that the monstro sensor is closer than we think. I do hope that it will be a release date and final price though.
 
Here's a visual aid:

picture.php
 
This is why this board is great. haha

Thanks Michael.
 
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