EPIC Reservations Begin...

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Would you care to elaborate on exactly why you're against this? Is it purely for opportunistic reasons, then please spare me the explanation.

I will most likely go with Stage 3 myself, but there's a possibility that I might be able to go with Stage 2. The economy is changing day by day and for the smaller players (like myself) there's no way of knowing if I'll have the money for a Stage 3 upgrade by the time the camera ships. I just lost a lot of money because someone who rented my camera for a feature last summer went bankrupt. If all the people who owed me money would just pay up then I wouldn't have a problem committing to Stage 2. Sometimes things just doesn't always work out so it would be nice with some options.

I can understand why RED wouldn't let us go down this path if it was bad for business, but I can't see that it is actually.

hey toni, i am doing stage 3 myself, so no oppurtunistic reasons.
things are rough these days, i know.
the better RED can plan and know the numbers, the faster the delivery of all cameras will happen (i hope).

I want Epic as fast as everybody else, but RED shouldnt be in the dark...they have to organise things too.


But maybe there would be a way the other way around...if people choose stage 3, but they suddenly earn some extra cash so they could afford stage 2, they could upgrade to stage 2 but without the benefit of getting the cam early....for example if a JULy/08 owner goes for stage 3 and a OCT/08 owner goes for stage 3 and the second one has suddenly more cash he will not get the stage 2 epic before the first one......to get it first you have to commit for stage 2 now

 

[Nik Skjøth]

I have got email from Brent that my RED1 "#694 is listed as a voided warranty due to a non-approved mount install on that camera so it would not be eligible for a Stage program."

So guys be careful and do not void your R1 warranty.

RED1 "experimentalism" has its own price!!

Also I asked Brent about my R1 status with MX upgrade and waiting for his answer.

That means I have to pay a full price if I want to get Epic.

wow.. That sounds rather unfair. Why do they care if the varranty is void. You keep your R1, you supported red from the begining, which was Jims holy preaching for giving you guys this offer in the first place. Now a mount change voids the varranty, excluding you from the club. pfft. Feel sorry for you man.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

But maybe there would be a way the other way around...if people choose stage 3, but they suddenly earn some extra cash so they could afford stage 2, they could upgrade to stage 2

Thanks for your answer, Kaya. I'm glad your reasons weren't as I initially thought

Either way would be fine for me.

I do believe however that there is a huge advantage in going for Stage 2 instead of Stage 3 in terms of ROI, and while I have been leaning towards borrowing the money, I decided against it because of these uncertain times. Feature-film production and commercials are down here generally and we have an abundance of RED cameras here as it is. I don't think productions are going to be willing to pay 40-50% more in rental for an EPIC than an MX'ed RED ONE any time soon. Especially not with all the DSLRs in the market.

Then again - I could be wrong

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

stage2 is definitly cool.

my problem is that with my delivery date i fall into the winterseason...and no one really shoots something here.

so i thought with Stage 3 i would be in the beginning next year/Spring batch or so (actually you are going to the end of the line, and if 3000 people behind you decide to do stage 2 you have to wait)...and could start shooting in spring.

delivery dates can change, i am counting on it hehe

 

[Yannick Verry]

my problem is that with my delivery date i fall into the winterseason...and no one really shoots something here.

Oh i was in Berlin for Berlinale 3 years ago, it was crazy-cold and white all over the place, but the atmosphere around the city was pretty "cinegenic"...

 

[Eli Jarra]

I'm trying to figure this out from a marketing standpoint. I always factored that if Stage 2 wasn't doable because of the down economic climate, I'd have stage 3 to fall back on. I didn't realize i'd be jeapordising my place in line, which I would've had a real advantage because of my low serial #...

Obviously stage 2 will yield more revenue in the beginning... (better ROI) because of demand will be high. For me a pivotal answer will be to know, what is the window between stage 2 and stage 3?
...and with Scarlet's on the heels of the EPIC release, the climate isn't gonna let up anytime soon.

For me this is a bit more challenging since my Reds are used mostly for stereo work. Everything I have to consider is times 2.
So Red, for real...if I can't come up with the cash in time to payoff stage 2, I miss out on stage 3 and forfeit my upgrade?

Eli

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think it would be a good idea if there was a way to bump that reservation "down" to a Stage 3 instead. That would make sense for everyone including RED.

Seems logical, but I have to disagree somewhat. The problem is there are a lot of people who are wanting to go to Stage-2 and can't come up with the money right now. Many who are hoping to be able to by the time their Stage-2 Epic-X would be ready. If everyone was given the opportunity to sign up for Stage-2 and then just punt to Stage-3 when their number comes up, it creates more internal shuffling for RED and it causes more delays. RED is trying to keep Stage-2 applicants completely serious here by imposing the restrictions. This enables to get a very accurate production volume ready and they could conceivably be able to send out Stage-2 deliveries very quickly and efficiently.

If the opportunity to jump to Stage-3 was offered, there would be far more Stage-2 applicants and the production data gathered would not be as accurate. For those who are serious and ready to buy NOW, it would not be fair for them to have their delivery delayed while dozens of people ahead of them hold up the line for two or three weeks while they try and round up the money, only to ultimately have to punt.

Sorry if this comes off a bit harsh, but if you are not in a position to pay for a Stage-2 Epic-X today, then Stage-2 is probably a bad choice for you. And signing up now, gambling that you will have the money by the time your number comes up, seems a very foolish thing to do.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Jeff: your points are well taken, wondering if you know what is the current status with RED working with lease companies.

Specifically, is RED still full payment up front or do they work with lease companies on Net terms.

What happens with deposits - would RED refund to us if we make the deposit now and then gets full payment from the lease company?

How will our invoice read on stage 2 sale? will it be $28500 with a $9000 discount?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Michael,

Those are definitely questions for RED. However, I'm 99% sure that RED itself is still operating on the full payment due for delivery model.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I'm trying to figure this out from a marketing standpoint. I always factored that if Stage 2 wasn't doable because of the down economic climate, I'd have stage 3 to fall back on. I didn't realize i'd be jeapordising my place in line, which I would've had a real advantage because of my low serial #...

Obviously stage 2 will yield more revenue in the beginning... (better ROI) because of demand will be high. For me a pivotal answer will be to know, what is the window between stage 2 and stage 3?
...and with Scarlet's on the heels of the EPIC release, the climate isn't gonna let up anytime soon.

For me this is a bit more challenging since my Reds are used mostly for stereo work. Everything I have to consider is times 2.
So Red, for real...if I can't come up with the cash in time to payoff stage 2, I miss out on stage 3 and forfeit my upgrade?

Eli

If you look back in the announcement thread in October, it was mentioned that there is a relatively brief window between Stage 2 and Stage 3... like 30 to 45 days or so.

I remember commenting how short it was... which speaks to new capacities
that have been mentioned many times before.

This is not the same company that shipped RED ONE's

 

[Brent Carter]

Jeff: your points are well taken, wondering if you know what is the current status with RED working with lease companies.

Specifically, is RED still full payment up front or do they work with lease companies on Net terms.

What happens with deposits - would RED refund to us if we make the deposit now and then gets full payment from the lease company?

How will our invoice read on stage 2 sale? will it be $28500 with a $9000 discount?

Pay in full, yes. If you have other arrangements with leasing companies that still work with our terms and conditions, you can go that route (as many people did with RED ONE).

Most likely a package price of $28,000 with a Stage 2 credit of $9000 on the invoice, yes. Yet to be finalized.

BC

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

Brent or Jarred,

I've been told I'm in the next batch for MX upgrades and have a few more days to execute stage 2.

I'm not only doing the MX and Rocket Deal, but moving ahead on the Stage 2.

I know stage 2 is PL mount, but I really need the electronic Canon mount which I'm told should be out about the same time. Will I be able to take delivery of my stage 2 epic when the canon mount ships? Canon mounts have a history of taking a bit longer than anticipated but it will be a bit of a brick for me until the canon mount arrives.

Of course I'm sure I could find someone to rent it while I wait, but I'm just trying to understand all of my options as it is just greed and excitement, pure and simple that has me moving from stage 3 to stage 2.

Best,

Thom

 

[Brent Carter]

If you look back in the announcement thread in October, it was mentioned that there is a relatively brief window between Stage 2 and Stage 3... like 30 to 45 days or so.

I remember commenting how short it was... which speaks to new capacities
that have been mentioned many times before.

This is not the same company that shipped RED ONE's

As you all can imagine, it depends on how many people sign up for Stage 2 before the May deadline. The more that sign up, the longer the fulfillment period for those cameras will be. But, yes, we learned a lot from RED ONE fulfillment experience, so we expect it all to go a lot smoother, hehe.

BC

 

[Brent Carter]

Brent or Jarred,

I've been told I'm in the next batch for MX upgrades and have a few more days to execute stage 2.

I'm not only doing the MX and Rocket Deal, but moving ahead on the Stage 2.

I know stage 2 is PL mount, but I really need the electronic Canon mount which I'm told should be out about the same time. Will I be able to take delivery of my stage 2 epic when the canon mount ships? Canon mounts have a history of taking a bit longer than anticipated but it will be a bit of a brick for me until the canon mount arrives.

Of course I'm sure I could find someone to rent it while I wait, but I'm just trying to understand all of my options as it is just greed and excitement, pure and simple that has me moving from stage 3 to stage 2.

Best,

Thom

AFAIK, you will have 30 days to pay for your EPIC-X package once you are notified it is ready to deliver. Sure, we can hold your package is you want to wait until the Canon mount is ready (but we think it will be right away). But I think you answered your own question - RENT. Ask the people with M-X RED ONEs right now if they have any trouble finding rental gigs

BC

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

AFAIK, you will have 30 days to pay for your EPIC-X package once you are notified it is ready to deliver. Sure, we can hold your package is you want to wait until the Canon mount is ready (but we think it will be right away). But I think you answered your own question - RENT. Ask the people with M-X RED ONEs right now if they have any trouble finding rental gigs

BC

Thanks for the quick response! I've been reluctant to rent out the Red One, or any of my children for that matter, but he may go out with his MX upgrade as will his Epic cousin, too--at least in the beginning.

When do the next batch of e-mails go out? I'm in the Mid-Feb group... (anxiously hitting refresh...)

 

[Emyr R. E. Pugh]

AFAIK, you will have 30 days to pay for your EPIC-X package once you are notified it is ready to deliver. Sure, we can hold your package is you want to wait until the Canon mount is ready (but we think it will be right away). But I think you answered your own question - RENT. Ask the people with M-X RED ONEs right now if they have any trouble finding rental gigs

BC

Brent, can I ask you if some of the other EPIC modules (e.g. the one's not forming part of the Stage II package) will already be available for ordering from the RED store while Stage II is underway?

For example, will we be able to order the Canon Mount, Pro I/O Module, RED Matte Box etc. from the RED store before we've taken delivery of our Stage II Epic?

Maybe the question should be more along the lines of are these other modules likely to go on sale while Stage II orders are being completed. Our RED is in the 6000s so, hopefully we'll be able to order ancillary modules before we take delivery of the EPIC so that we can make the best use of it immediately after it arrives.

Apologies if this question has already been answered - links to such answers would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Curran Giddens]

I made a suggestion a while ago that those who do the MX upgrade should be allowed another month or two to complete payment for Stage 2. I would be a bit hesitant about spending $ especially on the Red Rocket bundle if I wasn't sure if I would have enough by the deadline. If people knew they had some extra time i think they would be more willing to do the MX upgrade + Stage 2 route.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

I have got email from Brent that my RED1 "#694 is listed as a voided warranty due to a non-approved mount install on that camera so it would not be eligible for a Stage program."

So guys be careful and do not void your R1 warranty.

RED1 "experimentalism" has its own price!!

Also I asked Brent about my R1 status with MX upgrade and waiting for his answer.

That means I have to pay a full price if I want to get Epic.

It may be understandable that they don't allow you to trade in your Red One for an Epic (Stage 3), but I have to admit it's a bit unfair not allowing you to chose stage 2, which means keeping your "voided warranty" Red One...
After all, that wouldn't hurt anyone, and certainly not Red. I mean, if you hadn't told them, they wouldn't even know it, so why would they even care ?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

It may be understandable that they don't allow you to trade in your Red One for an Epic (Stage 3), but I have to admit it's a bit unfair not allowing you to chose stage 2, which means keeping your "voided warranty" Red One...
After all, that wouldn't hurt anyone, and certainly not Red. I mean, if you hadn't told them, they wouldn't even know it, so why would they even care ?

Nils,

I agree with what you've wrote but unfortunately we both were not making EPIC-X trade-in rules.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Nils,

I agree with what you've wrote but unfortunately we both were not making EPIC-X trade-in rules.

Sure, but they have usually been trying to be as fair as possible with their customers, that's why I find their reaction on this one a bit a bit surprising.
I don't really see what they have to lose here, it's rather the opposite, they are probably missing out on an Epic sale...
And also, as they say : "Everything is subject to change". So I really hope for you that they'll change their mind on that matter and allow you to get into stage 2 if you want to.