Epic render...

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I've routinely ride my EVF out past the Mattebox on the ET mount using a 16mm Zeiss standard speed, no problem at all.

well it wasn't meant to be literally

 

[Steve Gibby]

I easily tuned this RED One prototype ET Shoulder Mount rig for perfect balanced on my shoulder, right/left by balancing the EVF with the battery and drive, and front/back by simply sliding the camera up the V plate to the balance point and locking it down again. The COG is centered directly on the middle of my shoulder. I overcame the height of the camera by low-mounting the heavier accessories. Being able to tune a load for COG and balance quickly is unbelievably valuable in the field or on the set. If Epic can somehow have that capability, either through in-built features, 3rd party accessories, or a combination of the two, I'll be a happy camper. I do a lot of shoulder held and hand held shooting in my field work.

 

[Evin Grant]

Gibby,
you've got the right idea here but the CG is just way too high. As much as I love Steven and Hector and think their shoulder mount is genius (Got to play with it on Sat.) the Epic shouldn't need one. I'd be perfectly happy with a sliding shoulder pad, as long as I could slide it to within an inch of the front of the camera.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Gibby,
you've got the right idea here but the CG is just way too high. As much as I love Steven and Hector and think their shoulder mount is genius (Got to play with it on Sat.) the Epic shouldn't need one. I'd be perfectly happy with a sliding shoulder pad, as long as I could slide it to within an inch of the front of the camera.

The CG is actually very low with the way I have the battery and drive low-mounted, no top rods, plus the EVF mount is reversed for the lowest possible position of the mount hardware. That RED One rig didn't feel the least bit top heavy and it was well balanced front/back. The CG on that setup felt as good as any rig I've shouldered over the years - and I've shouldered a lot of cameras in a 30-year career.

I've been out shooting several entire days with that rig on my shoulder as I've been proto testing that mount.

I may or may not use my Epics with the ET Shoulder Mount, but If Epic itself has a sliding mount for its shoulder pad to easily achieve front/back balance it will be a major feature in shoulder mounting the camera.

 

[Gregor Hagey]

no ergonomic advantage to cut out, only disadvantages

no ergonomic advantage to cut out, only disadvantages

I'd just like to add my 2 cents worth.

I don't see any advantage with having a cut out. If I'm shooting handheld and I need to lower the the lens I just bend my knees. If I need to lower the lens height even more I just under-sling the camera. It couldn't be any simpler.

The big disadvantage of a cut out is that it limits how I can balance the camera on my shoulder. I love the flat base of the Red One because it allows me decide where it sits on my shoulder. A simple foam pad relieves the strain from the weight of the camera. I think a cut out is a very limiting idea. A shoulder brace can always be used if the camera slides around too much.

I have a lot of experience shooting handheld with the Red One (and many other cameras for that matter) and the key for me is being able to balance the camera front to back and minimize the weight, but not having a lower lens height.

 

[Evin Grant]

Fine Gregorios, no cut out, just move the big block at the front forward. Then we can all do whatever we like with it. Although a shoulder pad option would be nice.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Signing off for the night. I'm up and on location to shoot early tomorrow morning. This turned out to be a constructive input thread in the end. There was a little pain and bloodletting along the way, but hey, everyone has to have well-defined opinions to succeed in this business.

No harm, no foul. Thanks for everyone's input - that's what this board is for. Thanks for the render Jim, and also thanks for listening, and the heads up on cool new features planned (movable control panel, etc.)

Peace...

 

[Casey Green]

I'd still like to know if my 90 degree EVF reflector adapter idea would be a possible solution in certain situations.

What do you think, Evin?

 

[Evin Grant]

There would need to be a software flip, but it's an idea I've toyed with a few times.

 

[Casey Green]

There would need to be a software flip, but it's an idea I've toyed with a few times.

Yes, that is true, but I would think this simple EVF feature could be used in a number of situations, even now on RED ONE.

:usd:

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Well this has certainly become an interesting thread.

Brooke may have pissed the Red team off, but look at the attention everyone is now giving to making Epic as good as it can be.

An engaged community of passionate, loyal customers is a powerful thing.

It's great to see Red tap that power and do everything it can to find the right path and build another awesome camera.

Here's to being open and listening.

M

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Jim, will it be possible to change to PL mount to other type of lenses?

I know some people think this almost the dummiest thing to do, but there are special needs which required other type of lenses. Also I beleive I'm not the only one having such a need.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Jim, if you're pissed off by the big guys of you can always hang out on scarletuser.com :innocent:

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

A battery can accomplish that, But so can a sliding shoulder mount like the prototype ET Shoulder I've been testing. On that, the camera is mounted on an ARRI base, and the mount itself has a built-in ARRI lightweight V plate that the bridge plate rides on. With the flip of a lever you can slide the camera forward and backward on the V plate and easily front/back balance the rig.

Perhaps a similar approach would do well with Epic, rather than a fixed shoulder pad well, which would then require you to front/back balance the rig with batteries and accessories to dance well with the size lens you're using.

Ok, but bringing your ear further to the front of the camera body wouldn't interfere with using a viewfinder like said above?
I guess LCDs would be cool though.

And Gibby, what shoulder mount is that? That's a good looking sexy shoulder mount!
ET? Is that a brand?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Jim, will it be possible to change to PL mount to other type of lenses?

I know some people think this almost the dummiest thing to do, but ...

With due respect, I think it is the dummiest thing to ask for it in this thread. :ranting2:

We are discussing the rendering of Epic, and it is bad ass any way I look at it.

 

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

I think a real Pro adapts to it`s equipment, not having the equipment adapt to their spoiled needs....

Brook... I'll give you one other hint. Your premise is suspect. Lining up the lens mounts as the basis for comparison is flawed. What matters is balance, control location and viewing position. BTW... no one has seen what production Epic will actually look like. Just so you know.

And the above render of the Scarlet handle is purposely different than what will be produced.

Jim

And I believe so des this Epic render.... Jim likes to play

 

[Michael Hastings]

The distance from the PL mount to the bottom of the camera is fixed. Period. Unless you want to throw away the Arri standard and buy all new gear. So the question is how much "rise" is there on the bottom (for shoulder mount) and how far back is it from the mount. Pretty easy stuff. Except for the board stacks. Epic is as short (as in height) as we can make it given the board stacks (and taller is not good). We could make the body longer... but there is no reason to do so. There is no way to raise the back "floor" any more than we have... which is an almost perfect match to a 435. So what exactly are you asking for as it relates to CG?

Jim

What you just described changes the cutaway about 1/4".

Jim

But seriously, on a cam like that, to have them next to BNC would be better also for your housing?

Otherwise you need to think of a very clever cable connectors. The most annoying thing with RED right now is the cable connectors sticking so far out in the back.

I bet Pawel doesn't like that either :weight_lift:

As far as underwater, generally longer is better than wider both to reduce drag and also volume. One of the great things about the REDONE is that it can be stripped down so it fits in a very small cross section housing. Even with the drive, battery and LCD in the housing and all cables, you can get it to a displacement (the weight it has to be to be neutral) of just over 50 pounds. Whereas because of the height of the Varicam, F900, etc. you were usually looking at 75 lbs or so and quite a bit more drag. Epic looks even better because it is compact height and width - but even shorter, and when you look at other compact quarters applications - car interiors and such - it will be superior.

4th. As for the side outputs. It is much better, IMHO, to have a cleaner right side (when you have no outputs) than a big block of aluminum that makes the camera permanently wider no matter what. The space it takes to go 90 degrees with cables is no more than the block itself. Plus, you still have the option of a breakout box to tidy things up when you want it that way.

Jim

I think this is the key to the discussion, a lot of the changes simply ADD more to the block - PERMANENTLY. As it is, when you need to, you can strip it down to an extremely small size. If the changes add more to the basic block the only way to get it smaller is with the milling machine. In this configuration, with a birger mount and compact still lenses the epic can be stripped down to a size not much larger than the SCARLET.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Just a a thank you note to the RED team for posting these renders. I've been very curious to watch this project evolve. You guys have sprung so many unique and happy surprises with RED ONE that I'm greedy to see what unforeseen goodies you will be baking into the EPIC.

A 40% weight reduction alone is a huge value to me, and I'm happy to see standard connectors. This will make EPIC much more efficient to use in faster environments than the RED ONE is, currently. Mobility and weight reduction are high priorities for me.

But I'm sure, with your track record, there will be more than what meets the eye in store for EPIC....

My one question...Still no audio pots? Even after all of our whining and complaining and pissing and moaning?? C'mon, I thought we were louder than that! I have a Sound Devices MixPre strapped to my RED ONE, and I hate that I have to have this goiter slapped on the camera all the time, even thought I'm getting great line-level sound. It just kills the mobility and weight reduction concept....

 

[Irmeli R]

"90 degree EVF reflector"
i like the idea very much..maybe it could be done just with a 90 degree eyepiece so the viewfinder-design would not have to change drastically..is the eyepiece on the current viewfinder detachable?

 

[P Andersson]

modularity,
do you want to keep the arri standard - perhaps make that lower block removeable
how is the shoulder pad shaped - perhaps make it removeable and changeable