Epic-M Issues

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I was out with a rented (nearly brand new, I believe) Epic-M this past weekend and had some pretty significant issues with the latest release build firmware (1.7.10)

Twice when I switched to 4kHD mode, the camera froze up and would not boot. It seemed like it froze while switching modes and then when booting it would freeze while booting. On boot it would show the chip chart on the EVF but never showed anything on the touchscreen. The only way to fix this was to reinstall the firmware. After this happening twice in 1.7.10, I went to the previous release build. I also did not go to 4kHD mode again in the older firmware as I was on a job and wanted to avoid any chance of the camera freezing up.

Has anyone else seen this issue? It's bad enough rental cameras usually only come with release builds that are still missing many features (playback, 3k, etc) but to not have new features AND still have huge bugs like that is pretty frustrating.

 

[Johnny Friday]

This is quite disheartening to hear.....puts a scare in a LOT of potential rentals when i talk to folks....i realize we are out on the cutting edge and we bleed and all, but a funded doc or feature does not want to hear about camera problems and i find i loose my red rental to something else on occasion for issues like this. Granted in hands of an owner/user that is on top of things (i count myself in this group) these issues can be resolved. But somone renting my gear from me,.....i doubt they can or will go to the trouble of all that can sometimes be required.
...that said, i've had zero issues with startup etc....but never shoot 4kHD mode. i get the occasional power spike still, but not much more to report.

 

[Justin Marx]

Would like to know more about your setup? I've never had any issues.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Hmm hopefully it is an issue isolated to that camera body on that firmware. It was the new EPIC-M that Adorama Rentals got recently after their previous EPIC-M was stolen...

It didn't end up being a huge deal since the job it was for was shooting on 4 different cameras from super8 to EPIC-M sporadically in a studio so it didnt become a big problem to have the EPIC out of commission for 30min while I reinstalled firmware and did a new black shading. After this experience, though, its a bit amazing to me that more demanding jobs are able to work with this camera. EPIC-M has been out for nearly a year, right? I was quite surprised to have such significant issues. Maybe its just bad luck. Fortunately I didnt really need to switch to 4kHD for this job.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

What about the setup? It was very lightweight since most of Adorama's accessories were stolen along with their camera so they were missing a lot of accessories which there was some miscommunication about but it didnt end up being a big problem for us. The camera operator was set up with just the touchscreen and REDBRICKs. The issue occurred once running from the AC power adapter and once from a REDBRICK. Once the issue occurred I tried booting the camera with different power sources, EVF and LCD and different EVF/LCD cables but it never finished booting no matter what was plugged in or not plugged in. The power/rec lights would go through the normal bootup state and eventually both turn green but then a moment later the rec ready light would turn off and the camera would still be frozen on the chip chart on the EVF or nothing on the LCD.

I once had to shut down the camera due to a power spike while attached to a REDBRICK as well but thats probably not related.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I've had the POWER SPIKE issue rear it's ugly head a time or two since the new firmware uprgrades that all but crushed that issue---but i see it every now and then---not nearly as much as it used to come up, but there......I've had small issues come up on R1 and/or Epic and have to go through all my mental notes in order to fix the issue....and that said having stayed up on these boards has been a massive help to curing those issues while onset or in the field. Just cannot imagine renting out my gear to a non red educated shooter and "hoping" for the best. I think one thing in this community we all seem to share info freely and that knowledge is invaluable when something happens. At the moment, most issues are minor fixes with a reboot or upload of firmware again. But i know how that can piss off a director in the middle of a shoot with talent and crew waiting for you to fix it......in my case not too long ago, that meant getting out of the water, taking off my gear, drying off adn then pulling camera from housing and 45mins later back at it.....you can FEEL the burning sensation and the weight of everyone around you when you are on the spot in that situation. And damned if you can't fix it...better just hold your breath and pass out.

 

[Jason Diamond]

This sounds like a power issue. We had similar issues and realized that the quickplate had shorted out and was delivering intermittent power to the accessories and camera. Also sometimes a bad BNC can cause this.

Have adorama check all their gear for any faults outside the actual camera package.

Jason

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

This sounds like a power issue. We had similar issues and realized that the quickplate had shorted out and was delivering intermittent power to the accessories and camera. Also sometimes a bad BNC can cause this.

Have adorama check all their gear for any faults outside the actual camera package.

Jason

Don't you think it was probably not an external power issue since it happened both on AC power and on a REDBRICK?

 

[Deanan]

Noah, can you send us the log file from the camera if you still have it?

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Noah, can you send us the log file from the camera if you still have it?

Ah I should've saved it. I may be able to get the log file. Would it have to be log file from the Redmag that was in the camera at the time or would the log from any Redmag from the day we had the issue do? I'm not really familiar with the Epic log files and their behavior except that I noticed it wrote logs files to the Redmags and hadn't ever seen R1's do that.

 

[Deanan]

Ah I should've saved it. I may be able to get the log file. Would it have to be log file from the Redmag that was in the camera at the time or would the log from any Redmag from the day we had the issue do? I'm not really familiar with the Epic log files and their behavior except that I noticed it wrote logs files to the Redmags and hadn't ever seen R1's do that.

We contacted Adorama to get the log files but if you have any that you had copied off, please send those to me.
(deanan @ red dot com)

 

[Stephen Williams]

I am interested to know why you are surprised there was nothing on the touch screen when an EVF was attached, as it's not possible to connect them both at the same time.

I was out with a rented (nearly brand new, I believe) Epic-M this past weekend and had some pretty significant issues with the latest release build firmware (1.7.10)

Twice when I switched to 4kHD mode, the camera froze up and would not boot. It seemed like it froze while switching modes and then when booting it would freeze while booting. On boot it would show the chip chart on the EVF but never showed anything on the touchscreen. The only way to fix this was to reinstall the firmware. After this happening twice in 1.7.10, I went to the previous release build. I also did not go to 4kHD mode again in the older firmware as I was on a job and wanted to avoid any chance of the camera freezing up.

Has anyone else seen this issue? It's bad enough rental cameras usually only come with release builds that are still missing many features (playback, 3k, etc) but to not have new features AND still have huge bugs like that is pretty frustrating.

 

[Anders Holck]

Stephen, don't you have the Y cable?

I read it as he tried to boot with either the EVF or the LCD attached, and only when booting with the EVF he saw the color pattern.
The reason for this I believe is that the color pattern is a part of the EVF self check during power up and not generated by the camera.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Don't you think it was probably not an external power issue since it happened both on AC power and on a REDBRICK?

I managed t short fuse the our epic. When having it on the milo with "BNC" cables for video out. So if you have an AYA box or any such things connected you might be feeding the camera with static electricity. I actually got electrocuted when touching the camera body to turn it on... and luckily it did not want to start up. Then when unplugging video, it started up no problem.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I am interested to know why you are surprised there was nothing on the touch screen when an EVF was attached, as it's not possible to connect them both at the same time.

I figured it would be clear that I was referring to the touchscreen when it was plugged in instead of evf

 

[sergio arguello]

its my expierience that when my cameras go out i have issues reported to me ...On the other hand, when im shooting not a peep just finished a 17hr shoot 2 epics rolling 48fps the whole time and all good...I have to say that i love the new digital age, but the new breed of AC that spawned out of the age are ????? at best!!

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

its my expierience that when my cameras go out i have issues reported to me ...On the other hand, when im shooting not a peep just finished a 17hr shoot 2 epics rolling 48fps the whole time and all good...I have to say that i love the new digital age, but the new breed of AC that spawned out of the age are ????? at best!!

While I appreciate that anyone would have healthy skepticism in the abilities and experience of others they do not know and would rely more on their own personal experiences for their opinions, it could be a mistake to discount the reports of others. I understand that many owners are defensive of their camera, since misinformation and confusion often hurts business, but it seems a bit disrespectful to blame victims of faulty hardware or software and assume it was their lack of talent that caused the error. If you have any doubts about the issue I described, I'd ask you to reserve judgement of fault if you do not feel you have information. I will not assume you were referring to me in your comment about questionable ACs I was the AC on this job, but in general such generalizations are not so helpful for the community even if they make you feel better.

 

[Randall Brown]

Right on Noah...

 

[sergio arguello]

it wasnt my intention to direct the opinion to you personally...just my first thought that i suppose i should have edited before posting. As for the issues if i may make a suggestion: always be nimble enough to have the latest build and the previous one close by...before resorting to that do a maintenance refresh and if that fails to resolve the issue re-build with the previous then the latest black shade and you should be good

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

it wasnt my intention to direct the opinion to you personally...just my first thought that i suppose i should have edited before posting. As for the issues if i may make a suggestion: always be nimble enough to have the latest build and the previous one close by...before resorting to that do a maintenance refresh and if that fails to resolve the issue re-build with the previous then the latest black shade and you should be good

Yeah I was fortunate enough to have the issue present itself at check out, so adorama provided me with their access to firmware updates in case it occurred on set, so I was prepared to deal with the issue when it occurred on set.