Epic-M + Epic-X 3D?

[J.D. Frey]

Howdy,

First question- We have an Epic-X and and Epic-M, has anyone tried shooting 3D with the two models? I know they are virtually the same, but I was wondering if anyone has any practical experience working with the two different models.

Second question- Has anyone tried any tests with lenses that are the same model/focal length, etc but not purchased as a matched set? Does this cause serious problems, or is it possible the the footage would be "good enough"? My guess is that lens control would be difficult (but not impossible) as the focal lengths might need sleight separate adjustment to get them aligned, and may reduce overall length to a delta between the two (top end of the shortest and bottom end of the longest).

 

[Johnny Friday]

Well....i can't give test results. But i was on a recent job shooting 3D with two X's and my third camera is an M...they WOULD NOT accept the M camera. According to THEM (them is going to remain un-named) but a HUGE 3d company)---they would not run M & X mix...they would however run M with another M and X with X....That said, they gave me minor details why....that don't come to mind at moment. BUT, i'd say this makes sense since as i recall most M's are going back to RED for updates....audio if i recall as well as heat sink...and one thing for sure--keeping cameras at similar operating temps is critical to "drift".....that sounds like one of the big issues--keeping drift as close as possible (shutter) on each camera.

as for your second question: yes....shot many unmatched sets of lenses with great results....

 

[J.D. Frey]

Great info Johnny- Thanks a bunch. I hope the X/M drift has a chance to get resolved- otherwise maybe we can figure out something else.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Well, i would like to see RED chime in on this since it IS a BIG issue and just needs to be resolved. Fortunately i have two X's and two M's....but i cannot use one of my M's as a third backup camera on any shoots because of "this" issue....i have talked to my rep, but he is unaware of any issues...but that's normal as i would not expect him to know...but i'd really like to know when we can count on M upgrades so that this stops any fear or problems with renting M/X for 3d....

....Deanan? Can someone please come back from RED....

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I'll chime in to this silly thing, not you Johnny, the Company you are talking about it!!

Used to be that in early developments of 3D, you not only were to get EXACT CAMERAS, but also try to get them to be build within the SAME BATCH of sensors, same with the lenses, their glass was tried to be found as of the same batch, to maintain as close as possible fidelity to the Sensor as well as with the glass, even so for the glass was an entirely different requirements, really I will not go in to technical stuff here, as it will be a waste of both my time and that of the readers, simply put is that the Lenses have so many moving elements, and this elements need to move precisely at the same time and in equal form, especially when focusing and or changing Aperture and even when zooming, all not ease task to achieve even with Matched calibrated lenses, and only but the absolute best modern glass can do this, also because further more all Lens Defects, such as Chromatic Aberration, Color Fringing, Vignetting, Light Fall Off, and many more aspects that makes a lens a lens, need to be as precise one an other as mechanically possible, all other that can't be corrected in factory, will be corrected in POST, but the real challenge here is to take to POST as little as possible to correct.

Now for the sensor, needs still to be of equals size and at same position when Side by Side so it needs ot be the same camera make and model, and when in Beam Splitter rigs, this takes it to an other level, even so there are rigs which allow for the use of different cameras with different sensor of different size and resolution with even different lenses.

In this particular case this "Big Company" was and it is very badly educated and inform in to 3D!!

I, we, have used both the "M" and an "X" RED EPIC extremely well together on the 3Ality Technica Atom 3D rig, so... Yes it can be done no problem...

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Where is the "like" button in ketch´s post? I´d press it! ;-)

 

[Jason Goodman]

I had one of my EPIC-X cameras in for service and had to temporarily use an EPIC-M. We shot a bunch with one M and one X and had no problems whatsoever. Build was 2.0.5 I think. Make sure they both have the same build or you are likely to run into problems. Regarding the lenses, what brand, model focal length do you plan to use? I would say if they are close in age and have been used and stored in the same environments with great care, you may be able to get better results than you might thing. If they are zooms and you have a skilled stereographer, small FOV mismatches can be dealt with on set.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Where is the "like" button in ketch´s post? I´d press it! ;-)

...

 

[J.D. Frey]

Actually I don't know yet- right now it is a pipe dream- sort of a poor man's version of 3d. I say this as a person who has no clue how demanding 3D is.

When you say small FOV mismatches how small are we talking- is this something that can be done by hand, or does it need some kind of specialty equipment?
Also, is it typical to monitor 3D on set, or is there a "work by the numbers" process?

I ask, because part of my pipe-dream above is using our panasonic 3D mixer to monitor, but I have no idea how accurate two processed HD-SDI monitor signals form two cameras would behave. the good news is that I have almost everything I need to try it out (except lenses).

 

[Rex Phillips]

Are there any books or instruction manuals shooting on RED in the 3D? If not, would be helpful though.

 

[Tom C. Hall]

There is a 3D job going on right how that has an Epic-M and Epic-X, same firmwares, not problems I've heard of yet.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Not sure what "drift" Johnny is talking about, perhaps he can elaborate

As long as you can do Tri-Level-Sync of both cameras, there should be no problem. This has nothing to do with what the cameras are. The cameras are either locked to the sync source or not. And, if not, most likely the settings on both cameras do not match. RED confirmed that even mixing Scarlet and Epic is possible in a 3D configuration.

That's all you need.

Of course, you can sync the time code and you can sync the Master-Slave camera operation with the Gig-E cable. The later, whilst optional, may have issues if the cameras are not on the same firmware. But, nothing preventing you from shooting 3D as there are several ways to roll/stop both cameras and, even when using Gig-E cable, the cameras will not start/stop rolling at exactly same time anyway.

hope it helps.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I can't really say where or rather what caused the shutter drift. But one obvious culprit "could be" heat. Now that we have our M camera back from RED and same heat sinks....we have used both M and X successfully. But heat was what was thought to have caused the drift in the shutter that we had experienced during early tests. However, we never could actually isolate the issue and the M AND X cameras have come a long way in development since then.

....right now, we are quite happy with M mixed with X or two X's or two M's....and no further issues other than user error time to time