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Epic Deposit

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Cüneyt Kaya

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To make things saver for the lovely red guys...i would go for a deposit system for epic right now.


what about this...
every redowner receives a mail and has two weeks to decide to pay a deposit or not.....for EPIC X...30%.

lets say from the first 100, 50 pay a deposit...ok fine...next 100...etc. etc.
then a new list exists.
the owners who didnt want to pay a deposit still hold their place....but all of them are behind this new group.

its not unfair or a betrayel...
if red needs security to plan...they should have it.


just an idea to let a discussion start.
 
Judging from Jim's announcement today, I would say that this is pretty much moot until the Epics are even ready.
 
I would agree this could certainly help, but its a question of weather or not it's needed. I figure that Jim has likely already thought about this. All we know right now is that the 5K sensor seems to be working to some degree. Plus I would guess that sleeping more is always a fun option.
 
The circumstances Jim and the Red team face are not, will they make money on the camera or how much it costs to develop, from what I gather its more about, how much
more is Jim willing to spend in man hours and dollars to rush a product to market
as opposed to a reasonable time frame with normal business hours.

Yes I would love to get my Epic and Scarlet earlier, but if not enough people are howling for these cameras, its just not good business sense.

Its a nice thougt but I am not sure it would help
 
From Jim's announcement, they are just cutting back some overtime, which is a smart move in the current economic climate. He said it would delay the camera by a couple months. Big deal. In fact, I'm surprised he even made such an announcement. We all know that there are going to be set-backs and delays and the release dates are hardly set in stone... More like penciled onto a napkin. So begs the question, if Jim had not made such an announcement, would anyone ever know any different? Either way, I applaud him for his candor and the way he openly shares bits and pieces of their development process with the community.

Deposit for EPIC??? Uh... I thought that's what my RED One was for.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Deposit for EPIC??? Uh... I thought that's what my RED One was for.
Click to expand...


i dont think you bought your red as deposit for epic.
i did have to wait because of the fence sitters 2-3 months longer...

i just say...who has the money and want the epic....should get it.
 
The deposit idea for Epic is interesting, but Jim doesn't need our reassurances
at this point. A 10% deposit is nothing in the real world and many would still default if the economy goes really bad.
Would the deposit be open to everyone according to original cameras?
A Red competitor would spend $$$ and false reservations to screw with his manufacturing numbers. (Gosh, my cynicism is fierce.)
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
i dont think you bought your red as deposit for epic.
Click to expand...

No, that's not why I originally bought my RED One. I'm just saying that is what my RED has become. Or at least that's how I view it. My RED One is my place in line for a potential EPIC upgrade and it is a secure investment (or at least as secure as anything else out there) in that I can trade the body back in for full value toward one of the new brains. So yes, it's a deposit on a future camera system.

I also don't expect a guy who is telling his own customers to be cautious with their money and who is placing more sensible controls on his own operations, to even consider taking deposit money from people at this time.

IMO, I don't see how taking deposits, even substantial ones at 30%, would help anything here. ...I guess I also don't understand how people are getting so worked up over a delay of "a month or two" as applied to a completely unknown development schedule with only arbitrarily estimated delivery dates.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
...I guess I also don't understand how people are getting so worked up over a delay of "a month or two" as applied to a completely unknown development schedule with only arbitrarily estimated delivery dates.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with you Jeff, but I do think the delay will be longer then that.
 
considerations

considerations

Red Ones are marvelous cameras and are doing a great job, bringing home fantastic pictures and good money to their owners, even in these hard times. And all competitors are really, really a long distance away.
of course, Epics will be better, lighter and will produce even better images.
I will put my money down for Epics as soon as Red will let me.
But i wouldn't stress that Epic/Scarlet thing that much. Too much expectation and speculation on forthcoming new cameras can only bring damage to the good work we are making today with our Red Ones.
so, my word is:
there's no rush, guys.
I will step in my place in line, whenever you're ready.
I don't like any sort of line cutting just because my money's ready ( or for whatever reason, maybe my hair is red or my name starts with the letter R...).
I believe the delays are only due to the fact that now the demand of new cameras is lower, i don't think Red is in need of money.
I love the fact that Red will care about me and call me when things will be ready, without the stress of sleeping in front of the monitor just to be the first one to hit the Order Now button.
 
No deposit.

Yeah, those times are over.

Deposit is a sort of "pre-pay" pressure from the customers

for any product development and release date(s).

RED realized that and for sure we don't get it any more.

Also economic crisis just started to "dive us crazy" and pretty down

so why should RED take that risk to "serve' a sort of customer(s) bad mood.

They don't need extra money to pay for development, etc...
 
Look at the third party RED accessory vendors that have taken deposits or even full payments for products that were in development.

It doesn't seem to have been a factor in bringing the product to market any faster.
 
RndmAxess said:
Look at the third party RED accessory vendors that have taken deposits or even full payments for products that were in development.

It doesn't seem to have been a factor in bringing the product to market any faster.
Click to expand...

How do you know that?

I suspect if the 3rd party vendors didn't take payment up front there wouldn't have been any development...
 
Michael Lindsay said:
How do you know that?
Click to expand...

Your right , I don't know. As I said "It doesn't seem to have been a factor in bringing the product to market any faster."

Michael Lindsay said:
I suspect if the 3rd party vendors didn't take payment up front there wouldn't have been any development...
Click to expand...

What about Element Technica? I believe they developed and brought to market a number of products without prepayment. Also I think Long Valley Equipment has done the same.

I'm just saying that for some companies deposits weren't a factor in product development, and for those that have taken deposits it doesn't seem to have accelerated the development cycle.
 
I was being a little defensive...

ET charge appropriately to cleverly produce exceptionally high value kit that we all need... Their advantage is that those guy have been doing this (or more complicated things) for years. Between the 2 main guys there is some serous experience.

The one manufacturer questioned by your statement was naive (but really talented). I believe he should have charged more and taken less money up front. I know he works all the hours there is. With his current situation nothing more can really be done. Hopefully he has learned valuable lessons.

Even if a manufacturer can afford to cash flow all the development and product cost there are still good reasons to take a deposit. I think a deposit can help a manufacturer understand real financial intent. If 'anyone' had actualy put down 10% on the Red uncompressed option we might have had it by now.

Everyone likes the lifestyle attached to buying cool kit but not everyone 'today' has the business justification for the spend.

I would trade my Reds to Epics this year. I would put a bit of cash down to help Red do 'really' market research.

Lets hope the delay for epic is not to long..

regards

Michael L
 
We're really on the same page. I agree with your viewpoint.

Michael Lindsay said:
Lets hope the delay for epic is not to long..
Click to expand...

My sentiment also. But just as I waited for the RED ONE to come to market, then waited even longer for delayed accessories, third party solutions etc, I will wait for EPIC.
 
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