EPIC being challenged by the 5D people...

[Justin Chin]

I know what you mean by this Trevor but I'm sure you're just over simplifying for humor. I see it all the time with some of the "young" crowd (and this goes for older people without experience) who read into hype and think everything can be done on the cheep.

Agreed. "Lighting free filmmaking" is just another way to say "lazy filmmaking" in my opinion.

I encourage filmmakers who want to make films and make their stories come to life. Lucas and Coppola had that hungry rogue spirit. Sometimes it's needed. But they also had a healthy respect for the craft and the people who came before them. (which I'm not implying you don't).

Sorry trevor not lazyness.. I only sleep cos my body forces me to. Been filming since i was eight with and without heavy lights I just love to brainstorm theories with people in the field. They fascinate me.

 

[Phil Holland]

To add to that sample image I just posted. If you look at that dark red gradient top-center frame, that right there is where HDSLR material falls apart in the most ugly way.

 

[Michael Dalton]

have you notice you never see a well lit, well exposed images of the two cameras together? You can not pull a still off 5d video, there is no comparison of the two. I have a 5D, and all I can say is you can not boast with a camera that produces crap images. The HD video is not bad when it moves, but that said it is not great, especially when compared to those of Scarlet and Epic. So if it is true that the 5d is better in low light, who the F* cares when the image it produces is crap.

 

[Trevor Meeks]

I know what you mean by this Trevor but I'm sure you're just over simplifying for humor.

You're right, I was over-simplifying for humor a bit

I see it all the time with some of the "young" crowd (and this goes for older people without experience) who read into hype and think everything can be done on the cheep.

Exactly. One of my biggest peeves about the majority of the DSLR crowd.

 

[Justin Chin]

Phil thanks for the comparison images! Great thoughts in the post as well. Do you have any metering info as well?

 

[Trevor Meeks]

To add to that sample image I just posted. If you look at that dark red gradient top-center frame, that right there is where HDSLR material falls apart in the most ugly way.

Phil, you're a busy guy, but I just want to say I SO appreciate your posting here. Those two images are literally like night and day, and really show the strengths of what you CAN do with RED RAW. Is there any chance (no rush, really!!) that you might be able to tell us a bit about your process sometime? I'm very interested in what you did and how you did it, to pull off that grade with such beautiful results! Again, seriously no rush. But any info would be much appreciated.

 

[jorge krausch]

thanks for the stills trevor.. that clears things up.. no 5D for me lol

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Phil.

Again: Thanks and you point at the exact right spot. Te gradients of red would crap all over, as would a lot of other stuf, including the shirt...

Woud b fun to se an r3d still from that shot.

Cheers
And thanks!

 

[Justin Chin]

Hey Trevor, I've noticed you're local to the bay area. When we get our respective cameras (epic and scarlet) we should go and shoot some tests. I'm in stage 3. Okay, back to the rumor mill/squash.

 

[Justin Chin]

thanks for the stills trevor.. that clears things up.. no 5D for me lol

The stills are from Phil.

Yeah, when I've shot 5D at that level it really can be noisy. Works for vimeo, but not projected. Of course Phil is much better at post than I am. And I think the point in all this is what room you have in post to make a difficult shot/scene work. In the end apples to oranges. Yes, I think I'm the first in this thread to invoke the fruit. The fruit always comes out in these matters, no?

Why am I still here?

 

[Brian Merlen]

how the heck can you compare a raw image to an rgb baked in image? that is what upsets me most when i hear any prosumer camera compared to red products....some kid told me the red one 300fps shots i showed him on youtube had bad color and that his VX is better...i nearly had an aneurism attempting to explain how he can't base what the colors/exposure looks like based on a color corrected youtube video. the camera shooting raw is inherently different then any baked in image camera, the comparisons are not straight forward. all these people comparing color tones or low light performance don't understand the concept of getting a wide negative. they think the negative=the final image because that is how their baked in camera works...it drives me totally bonkers trying to explain this to idiot film students...business associates, clients, etc...

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil thanks for the comparison images! Great thoughts in the post as well. Do you have any metering info as well?

Nope. It was a bit off the cuff as I was running around shooting in darkness at miscellaneous places in Hollywood. I'll give you the R3D below though and you can get a good idea from that.

Phil, you're a busy guy, but I just want to say I SO appreciate your posting here. Those two images are literally like night and day, and really show the strengths of what you CAN do with RED RAW. Is there any chance (no rush, really!!) that you might be able to tell us a bit about your process sometime? I'm very interested in what you did and how you did it, to pull off that grade with such beautiful results! Again, seriously no rush. But any info would be much appreciated.

Cheers and thanks Trevor. Neat Video is the golden egg of working with higher ISO material. Neat Video is powerful, quick, and inexpensive; every Red user/owner should buy it. I have explored workflows exporting tifs thought and utilizing Camera Raw's noise reduction for extreme situations. There's many ways to tackle this from a workflow perspective.

Phil.

Again: Thanks and you point at the exact right spot. Te gradients of red would crap all over, as would a lot of other stuf, including the shirt...

Woud b fun to se an r3d still from that shot.

Cheers
And thanks!

Your wish is my command

Here's an R3D grab:

http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/phfx_Scarlet4kLowLight.zip

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

hum.. so technically.. in a very low light situation and you are gorilla shooting without lighting for a few permit-free shots.. its good to have a 5D body in your backpack just in case

This did stray from the original question but it does bring up a good point that should be a part of this discussion.
There are many times that someone shooting a documentary, news or similar subject matter would certainly look at the form factor of the camera they are carrying. A DSLR can blend in much better than an EPIC. In some circumstances, especially capturing politcal unrest, that can save your life.

It can also allow the players to act more naturally. People in the background may be more likely to stare at an EPIC whereas a DSLR may be worth only a casual glance. If you are looking at capturing an existing environment without being intrusive, a DSLR can work.

Also consider - the DP on SNL (Alex Buono) has been using the EOS7D and 5D Mark II to shoot opening sequences and some show content since 2009. Whipping out a DSLR in a sidewalk cafe, taxi or crosswalk makes it a low profile shoot with adequate results for broadcast TV.

My type of shooting - nope - I'll personally go for the quality and flexibility the EPIC brings to the table.
Just saying that there are reasons that a DSLR can be the right tool for some jobs. I cannot dismiss their worth.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Thanks Phil

There are some reall great tips implied in this shot, as it was shot, and it is quite nice to grade quickly for a number of reasons, not at least because of how it was shot.

Even underexposure and natural lights is about photography...

Thanks for posting the r3d!

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks Phil

Even underexposure and natural lights is about phtography...

Very true. Artificial or natural it is all about light.


More shot details

Double Raspberry Vanilla Latte

 

[Philipe Ratton]

;-)

what is the difference between God and a dop?
God don't think he is a dop

Pat

This made me laugh so hard ! Post of the month.

 

[James Drake]

that's..... pretty awesome.

 

[PatrickFaith]

More shot details
Double Raspberry Vanilla Latte ....

LMAO ... awesome ... hey ... I'd think there should be a big "SKULLY" lettering on the side ... what's up ?

 

[Phil Holland]

Hehe. Skully is getting some "branding" in the near future. Trust me. Bumper stickers too!

 

[Paul Russell]

Canon users (and I'm one too) can compare stills all day. But when you play video and that codec kicks in and turns static surfaces into vibrating jelly the contest is moot.